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Thursday, November 18, 2010

New 40k FAQ


Well the site was down for a reason then (see the Vulkan post in the comments)! Apparently GW has updated the 40k BRB FAQ; will be interesting to see if the other books are updated anytime soon as well.

Brief thoughts; nothing amazing though being able to shove a lot of crap in people's faces will be nice (in terms of arugments...). One pinning per unit, not one pinning per weapon. Indepedent Characters now have a silly make-way! move akin to Fantasy which is unusual and means your ICs are much more vulnerable to being PFist bashed (i.e. Libbies). Extra care will be required when placing some of these models now or ensuring other models cannot be moved (i.e. base to base; the difference between the Fantasy version). Some extra clarifications on combat, vehicle explosions and the cominbation of the two (4+ cover in craters, explosion deaths count to combat resolution, etc.). Just in case it wasn't clear before, no an embarked unit cannot be targeted; thanks GW. Moving flat out transports with models inside means everything dies when the vehicle is destroyed on your own turn [own turn only see below]; do not ram with these please. Scout moves count as previous move phases so 3+* cover, smoke on vehicles, hitting vehicles in combat, etc. is all allowed on scout units. Ravenwing begs for an update now where they keep Scout (that will be a Bikerlist on steriods). Stealth is now a USR that spreads from one to many (go Telion!). Some extra clarifications on Kill Points (and IC + squad = 2 KP) and deployment via transports (yes you can deploy in a non-dedicated transport) and being blocked (yes you can be blocked and die).

Quite a few other changes but most are quite logical or pretty clear in the BRB. Nothing major; I think the biggest thing is the IC semi make-way! rule and pretty much everything else was just a clarification and shuts up quite a few arguments.

Now let's all chant for GW to change their army FAQs and fix the massive screw-up that was the Tyranid FAQ. It will help your sales GW, I promise. People will have belief in your ability to not only love Imperial armies but Xenos too and will buy more from you!

EDIT: From MarshalLaeroth further explaining why the FAQ on flat-out doesn't screw over fast transport armies:



QUOTE: "Q: If a transport vehicle is destroyed in the same turn as it 
moved flat out what happens to any embarked models? (p70) 
A: They are removed as casualties." 

This is the correct interpretation and why: This ruling is only a clarification as to what happens if you go flat out in your turn with a transport full of guys. If you happen to smash full force into terrain and fail the terrain test, the vehicle is destroyed...with all of the passengers. If you flat out ram an opponent's vehicle and accidentally destroy your transport full of guys, they all die. If you flat out tank shock a meltagun dude and he kills the vehicle, they all die. 

This does NOT include getting shot down in your opponent's turn after going flat out in your turn. There are several good reasons for this. 

1) The ruling says "the same turn as it moved flat out". That means that PLAYER'S turn, not game turn. (BRB Pg 9, Top of 2nd column). 

2) On BRB Pg 70 under 'Fast Transport Vehicles', it says that "Passengers may not embark onto or disembark from a fast vehicle if it has moved (or is going to move) flat out in that Movement phase." Key word(s): in THAT movement phase. Getting shot in your opponent's turn is a completely separate phase entirely. 

Comments (53)

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Oh as an aside to the Make-way! addition. This is good for combat ICs which are now harder to avoid but annoying for non-combat ICs which are harder to hide.

Just to make that clear.
3 replies · active 749 weeks ago
I forgot the Scout issue - improves DA no end, which is great for them. I think it's wrong, and inconsistent, but, hey - what do I know?

Oh right, a lot, actually. lol
Actually, TKE, this doesn't affect DA at all. Ravenwing bikes are prohibited from turbo boosting in their own codex, so it overrides the BRB.
Ja, Spewin' for Sang & Wolf Priests wanting to buff the unit but avoid the pain.
One you missed that I think will affect quite a few marine players: A Weapon Destroyed result now destroys any coaxial weapons as well. Las-plas razorbacks have one-gun syndrome now.
6 replies · active 749 weeks ago
The current SM FAQ overrules that (they count as two seperates guns). Unless that gets changed...
Interesting, forgot about that. The BA FAQ doesn't have this ruling in it, but I assume people generally apply it there as well... we'll see if/when they update the other FAQs.
Wouldn't the most recent FAQ override any previous ones? Even codex-specific ones?
Codex > BRB. Codex FAQ > BRB FAQ.
LasPlas turret is not co-axial. Co-axial weapons only exist, to the best of my knowledge, in FW and Apocalypse.
Hm, I was thinking just using the definition of coaxial, didn't know there is an actual weapon type in Apoc (which I don't play). Could be the intent here.
TheGraveMind's avatar

TheGraveMind · 749 weeks ago

Here is the problem I've already seen.
"Q: If a transport vehicle is destroyed in the same turn as it
moved flat out what happens to any embarked models? (p70)
A: They are removed as casualties."

So now my Blood Angel fast vehicles are now death traps? WTF!!
9 replies · active 749 weeks ago
Before the FaQ, they would have been dead had you got a wrecked result, but not a destroyed result, now it's the same no matter what result you get
By turn I believe they mean player turn, not game turn. So if you move flat out and Ram something, but the return hit blows up your vehicle, the guys inside are lost. If you move flat out and your opponent blows up your vehicle on his turn, that's not the same "turn" it moved flat out.

Seriously, GW needs to be precise in their use of "turn." It's almost as bad as "level" in D&D.
Not so, Kris - the BRB *clearly* states that they mean Player Turn unless they say otherwise. It's PEOPLE who have any issue there. :p
You're my favorite.
You need an Avatar. I was wondering who is this fellow?
;)
Eh. Not sure. You take YOUR turn, then they take THEIR turn. So if you ram flat out and blow up, the guys die (or move falt out through dangerous terrain adn crash as a skimmer). Their shooting phase comes later.
Pretty sure what TKE was meaning here was Kris was wrong in pointing out GW is never clear with their turns when they are ^^.
Oblivion_necroninja's avatar

Oblivion_necroninja · 749 weeks ago

Actually, D&D 4e got rid of "spell levels", which, unless you both number the floors of dungeons and refer to the aforementioned floors as 'levels', was the only other type of levels.

So, GW's 'turns' are now officially more confusing than D&D's 'levels'.
Welcome to the world of Eldar...

Oddly enough, the FAQ actually specifically answered one of the questions my gaming group was having: the assaulting immobile vehicles thing. I was quite impressed by this.

Thanks, GW! You've finally made a useful BRB FAQ.
So ork trukks are now suicide machines, even more than before...how does ramshackle results affect this? (One result specificaly states the orks get out ok...)
1 reply · active 749 weeks ago
The codex would trump the BRB in that case.

edit: huh, should have read down. Someone beat me to it.
well so does it means that if I move my rhino 18" I die ? if yes whats the point of having fast vehicles at all except preds and vindis !
1 reply · active 749 weeks ago
Only if you do it in your turn. If you move your Rhino 18" and Ram/move into terrain and it wrecks/explodes!, everything inside dies, too as it's still that turn. If you move 18" and your opponent shoots it dead your occupants take damage as normal as it's no longer the same turn (pg9 BRB ) .
Orks, Bloods and the Eldars get stooged royally.

*sniggers*

Slow and steady wins the race, eh?
1 reply · active 749 weeks ago
neverXmoor's avatar

neverXmoor · 749 weeks ago

Gosh darn it, read the posts! Only if the vehicle dies in your turn.
MeanGreen's avatar

MeanGreen · 749 weeks ago

there go the dark eldar lol. Looks they are shifting away from mechanized back to foot meta for SOME armies.
2 replies · active 749 weeks ago
Side note: @ least ork ramshakle will overule BRB when it comes to orks piling out unhurt on some results.
neverXmoor's avatar

neverXmoor · 749 weeks ago

Gosh darn it, read the posts! Only if the vehicle dies in your turn.
totally hate it damn I moved to tyranids right before faq and now I moved to BA right before this FAQ thank god I can make BA work anyways cause pred spam FTW :)
1 reply · active 749 weeks ago
neverXmoor's avatar

neverXmoor · 749 weeks ago

Gosh darn it, read the posts! Only if the vehicle dies in your turn.
This FAQ didn't really change many things- ICs making way was one of the few significant rules. The clarification to moving Flat Out and passengers was already derivable from the rules, it just wasn't something most people noticed.
makes BA rhino rush a horrible idea. Doesn't really hurt BA Razorspam.
Makes DE cry. All that "speed" now translates to more dead squads. No FNP for you...
Eldar, also, take a boning. They at least have armor 12 closed-topped transports with spirit stones, and energy/holo fields...
2 replies · active 749 weeks ago
neverXmoor's avatar

neverXmoor · 749 weeks ago

Gosh darn it, read the posts! Only if the vehicle dies in your turn.
I know. I haven't edited anything.

14 hours before you post I had acknowledged that after Marshal Laeroth's post.
No. Everyone's interpretations of this ruling are incorrect (except Kirby...and maybe some others):

QUOTE: "Q: If a transport vehicle is destroyed in the same turn as it
moved flat out what happens to any embarked models? (p70)
A: They are removed as casualties."

This is the correct interpretation and why: This ruling is only a clarification as to what happens if you go flat out in your turn with a transport full of guys. If you happen to smash full force into terrain and fail the terrain test, the vehicle is destroyed...with all of the passengers. If you flat out ram an opponent's vehicle and accidentally destroy your transport full of guys, they all die. If you flat out tank shock a meltagun dude and he kills the vehicle, they all die.

This does NOT include getting shot down in your opponent's turn after going flat out in your turn. There are several good reasons for this.

1) The ruling says "the same turn as it moved flat out". That means that PLAYER'S turn, not game turn. (BRB Pg 9, Top of 2nd column).

2) On BRB Pg 70 under 'Fast Transport Vehicles', it says that "Passengers may not embark onto or disembark from a fast vehicle if it has moved (or is going to move) flat out in that Movement phase." Key word(s): in THAT movement phase. Getting shot in your opponent's turn is a completely separate phase entirely.

3) If the Internet's interpretation was correct, take the following situation: If you are first and you move flat out in your turn, then your opponent shoots and kills that vehicle in his turn (2nd player turn). Its part of the same GAME turn. So by that not-right interpretation.. .the guys inside are dead. However, if you go 2nd and then move flat out in your turn and get shot in opponent's next turn (they went first), then its a separate GAME turn, invalidating the FAQ ruling.

This interpretation would penalize players for going first and completely unbalance the game. Not only that, it would significantly nerf the new Dark Eldar codex and the new Blood Angels codex.

Hopefully that clears things up. ;)
2 replies · active 749 weeks ago
Yes, I'd assumed, rather than read what the FAQ was saying. I'd also assumed that the FAQ wouldn't have "clarified" what was already clear, and so the FAQ must be talking about what I'd thought it would.

So I got it wrong :P
Aye, I found that people were freaking out...so I looked everything up, referenced it all, and presented a situation that broke the FAQ ruling following that interpretation. Just wanted to ease everyone's minds, so its all good. :D

The sky isn't, in fact, falling. Kirby just asked me to put all of this stuff down so he could reference it and it seems to have slowed the Blood Angel players rush to Ebay. ;)
Scout bikers and drop pods. Hi, melta guaranteed within "4 first turn.
Jump shoot jump after deep striking suits interests me, I need my codex to confirm.
1 reply · active 749 weeks ago
Can't jump after deep striking. Their codex forbids it.

I like these updates.
IG commissars can't have stealth cloaks right? :)
2 replies · active 749 weeks ago
They can, and so can lords.
Blob with an attached lord for stealth?

So nice of GW.
Only Lord commissar can, so it's a lot less usefull...
wisdom like silence's avatar

wisdom like silence · 749 weeks ago

I like how they tried to fix the Telion issue but ended up flatly contradicting the BRB with the Stealth ruling. Couldn't they have just said "squad" instead of unit"?
3 replies · active 749 weeks ago
LolCommissar's avatar

LolCommissar · 749 weeks ago

Does this effectively make Telion 35pts in a unit of scouts snipers (that would of previously brought camo cloaks)?
wisdom like silence's avatar

wisdom like silence · 749 weeks ago

As far as I can tell that was the entire point. Definitely makes him a better buy, for those of us who played with people that didn't think it worked that was for unit upgrade characters.
Almost. If Telion dies (due to wound allocation) the squad looses Stealth.
Only ruling I hate is no ramming buildings. WTF? Why?
1 reply · active 749 weeks ago
No unnecessary damage to property.

Damn Brits!
All the old stuff's in Pink, Kirby. I think you have a fan.....
1 reply · active 749 weeks ago
New stuff actually. And they did that on the Fantasy FAQs too.
Moghol Kamir is now dangerously close to being the worst Special Character in the entire game. Even Nork outperforms him.

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