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Saturday, December 4, 2010

Hybrid Blood Angels



The concept of Hybrid BA isn't a new one but isn't one I've ever been too fond of. Hybrid BA revolves around using fast tank chassis to move forward, BLoS to Jumper Marines behind them and crush the opponent with both an armored fist and a bunch of MEQ bodies which can move 12". In theory it sounds great but the problem is I feel, you diversify too much for not enough gain. You compare the Marine numbers in a Hybrid list to a pure Mech list and you often find they aren't too different (compared to a foot list which generally has 50+ bodies depending upon points). You then have to realise the majority of the time the vehicles are only providing cover to the Jumpers behind rather than blocking LoS. It's hard to fit 20+ Jumpers behind tank chassis and completely block LoS to all angles. Fewer bodies would be easier but then what's the point of Hybrid?

My favorite Hybrid is Koopa's list. It does have less bodies than 20 but they are SG so can shrug off the small arms fire, are actually effective in small numbers and can hide from the low AP fire they wish to avoid. Win, win, win. You also still have a sizable Mech element so you're not gimping that side of the list either. The problem here though is this list really only works at 2000 points and I know a lot of people play at 1750. So if you're really really set on running Hybrid BA at this points level, how do you do it?



Now a few of you will figure this out, it's stemming from that ridiculous argument over on H-O about KatieDrake's list. Rather than link you there I'll link you to the ever funny FNIF by Dethtron (who once again rigged it so I couldn't win). Anyway, what this huge e-peen waving enterprise boiled down to was this: ACLC Preds or Rifledreads for Hybrid BA (with a lot of rage, anxist, not understanding 40k, etc. tossed in. And did I mention e-peen?). I don't want to continue that argument here because I think I shut it down quite well =D (did I mention e-peen?), though of course my comments weren't replied to by the antagonist (evil music plays). But rather than me being all "I hate Hybrid BA, gtfo" I'm going to do a list not based on the model restrictions KatieDrake was operating under (though it'll look similar regardless).

So, to start we obviously want our Jumper core. 2x10x ASM w/double meltagun and PFist are it. Sang Guard would be the preferred choice but aren't going to be feasible at this points level. We also obviously want a Libby (100 points) for Shield and whatever else and some Preds to bring suppression fire/anti-tank and tank chassis which we will support with ASM Razorbacks. And we need to fit this all into 1750 points. So we'll start with 2x ACLC Pred (they are a better fit for this type of list though Rifledreads work quite well too) and 2x naked Baals setting us back 500 points to go with our 570 already spent. That's 1070 gone already and we need RBacks + Priests.

We'll take two Priests and put them in RBacks which makes them less vulnerable but requires precision movement with our Jumpers to ensure they get FNP/FC on the charge. We then have two choices really, we can either aim for 4x RBacks with a TL-Heavy Flamer or 3x RBacks with an upgrade gun such as Asscannons or LasPlas. We've equipped all of ASM squads with melta weapons so we're going to have 10-12 of them backed up by 2x TL-AC, 4 lascannons and 2 autocannons from the Preds which isn't much ranged firepower so for the moment we're going to go with TL-AC (LasPlas would be potentially be better if we had gone Rifledreads). 3 squads of 5xASM w/meltagun, infernous pistol and RBack w/TL-AC then puts us at 1710 points, enough for some combat upgrades as needed, Jump Packs or make-overs.

So our core Hybrid BA list at 1750 then stands as:

Libby w/Shield, Sword
2x Sanguinary Priests
3x5x ASM w/meltagun, infernous pistol, RBack w/TL-Asscannon
2x10x ASM w/2x meltaguns, PFist
2x Baal Predator
2x Predator w/Lascannon sponsons

Totals: 1710 points
20 Jumpers
18 infantry
7 tanks

Again, a lot of changes can be made based around Heavy Support (Rifledreads) and RBack layout but this is a good basis on which to modify for all those who want a Hybrid BA list!

Comments (5)

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I don't like it as much as Koops either. Too many average marines and not enough hulls. It just looks like there will be a s**t-ton of average CC, and not really a great deal of shootiness. Maybe I'll send Katie some SG, as this list without them just makes me sadface.

At least all of those bloody flamers have gone.
3 replies · active 753 weeks ago
The issue is, compare it to a pure Mech list like 6 Preds or Flamestorm and you can get more vehicles and roughly the same number of infantry (but no jump packs) and more firepower across the board. Hybrid is workable obviously but I've never liked it as a BA concept.
I actually think BA are the PERFECT guys to do hybrid. The have all of the options in the correct slots, they have decent fast troops (ASM/SG) and fast transports. I think the problem is we all try to create something too similar to SW hybrid. SW will excel in sit back and shoot hybrid. The same won't work for BA. The Devs aren't as good as Long Fangs, but otherwise, BA are good for the job.

With regards to the comparison of Hybrid vs Mech for BA, the difference is you have no CC units. This is what hybrids need and what this list above doesn't have. SM have TH/SS, SW have TWC, the above list has assault marines. Thanks.
They have the capacity but does it work?

With the ASM you need numbers which just makes them vulnerable to early turn anti-infantry and you need to spend points on FNP/FC bubbles which don't get maximum effectiveness since a lot of points are dumped into tanks. How are any of the BA Hybrids sit back and shoot? The mech is moving forward to screen the Jumpers which need to get into combat and your Razors are fine doing that. You expose side armor of baals but meh, what do you do. It's BA Mech which is more sit back and shoot ala Eldar. I think putting in Devs is falling more into that roll as the Devs have no option to move and fire.

ASM are good combat units but are based around torrent. Going Katie's example and just adding a bunch of PW to 5 man squads works wonders but the problem is a Mech list has minimal points to spend depending on style (3x ACLC, 3x Baal w/Sponsons, 6x5x ASM + RBack w/Weapon upgrade + Libby = 2020 points). Then you have Koopa's version which just...works. You have the armored fist and suppression fire based around that armored fist backed up by two effective combat units who can be joined by torrenting units as needed in the ASM. This really isn't feasible at smaller point levels because you can't have SG as Troops.

You can try something like it though with the above list; replace the 2x10x ASM w/2x 5x SG w/2x pistol + PFist so you've got 5 points spare and then swap the RBack squads to TL-Heavy Flamer meaning you can afford 4 of them. It works but is tight and doesn't have too much firepower.

The biggest issue I find with Hybrid BA is you're paying premiums for both aspects. FNP/FC bubbles for foot and fast status for Mech and you're not really gaining the most advantage out of Hybrid combination that you do from lists like Hybrid IG or SW.
khornatedemon's avatar

khornatedemon · 753 weeks ago

not to jump into a tangent but is asscan spam worthwhile? i've been contemplating it for a mech list and I've seen a lot of the hybrid lists attempt it but i'm not 100% sold on its effectiveness.

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