
Puppy and GWvsJohn haven't gotten back to me on the next Dark Eldar instalment; how rude. You get this post instead. We all know Eldar are in a dire need of a codex update and that Games Workshop's whole "specialised" concept just doesn't work; it's too easy to pick apart. Eldar are currently clinging onto their slot as one of the capable armies out there but with an increase in ranged firepower and psychic defenses, they are very much a defense oriented army which looks to minimise damage through reserves/good defenses and then dominate the board through survivability and mobility. Then the Dark Eldar codex came out and there was hope for Eldar. Whilst they are at least a year if not more off (I imagine Necrons and Tau are before Eldar in the Xenos codex update), Dark Eldar are a little picture of what Eldar want to be. Although Dark Eldar aren't exactly specialists, they aren't generalists like Marines either and quite a bit of their duality is gained from the 1+1 concept of transports. However, it remains that Dark Eldar have quite a few units which are capable of being quite good at one role but not utter failures in the other. This is exactly what Eldar Aspect Warriors need to be upgraded to.
So a long time ago we looked at some basic changes and reviews of Eldar Aspect Warriors. I'm not going to go into more detail as that previous post covers them but if you would like me to something similar to the Tau Codex Review (I promise to finish that btw) just for Aspect Warriors or the Eldar codex in general, I can do. What this post is looking at is the new Aspect Warriors released by Forge World: Shadow Spectres. Besides having a cool name and some damn fine looking models are these guys a step in the right direction? Uh no.
The full rules for them can be found here which I'm going to break down for you. At 35 points a pop they are just as dear as Dark Reapers and take a Heavy Support slot. This immediately puts them in conflict with Fire Prisms and Falcon Grav Tanks. Personally they need to be a Fast Attak choice much like the Nightspinner needs to be. In the future Eldar codex this gives you a lot of options for Aspects across FoC slots as well as AV12 options. A case can be made for keeping Shadow Spectres in Heavy Support but with the changes that should be heaped upon them, they are a better Fast Attack choice. So let's begin. We'll start with the actual review then go into proposed changes as usual with these sort of articles.
So Shadow Spectres are geared towards anti-tank; or so Forge World says. Unfortunately with a S6 gun, no lance, double pen, AP1 or anything which makes it good against armor, it falls significantly short of being worthy of the points investment. Last time I checked the whole Eldar mech army brings me masses of S6 firepower and it's more mobile. Their ability to combine and make a stronger shot (Ghostlight) attempts to overcome this but neh, one high strength lance shot? I can make it re-rollable with an Exarch but we're looking at a 212 point investment for one twin-linked S9 lance and one S7 shot; expensive and not draw droppingly amazing. They also suffer from terrible range (12") and although this is mitigated somewhat by being able to deepstrike/JSJ, it's just too low when you're not carrying a meltagun or tons of the same type of weapon (i.e. Blasters for Dark Eldar). Shadow Spectres are nice in that they are Jet Pack units which gives them relentless (so they aren't static like Dark Reapers) but are pretty slow compared to the rest of the army. A JSJ option is nice but Eldar are supposed to be freaky awesome, I'd rather see a move 12", jump 6" here but JSJ is better than nothing I guess.
Spectres have one awesome thing going for them however. They are essentially jump troops with a 3+/5++. This would be particularly awesome if they could move 12" and 6" during the assault phase as they are more durable heading into/out of terrain and aren't dead meat out in the open with a decent save and an invul against low AP firepower. The Withdraw ability is nice and ensures theses guys won't get stuck in combat though they aren't likely to survive even with a 3+/5++ against any dedicated assault units. As discussed before, Cynosure allows ghostlight to be re-rolled which makes it a lot more reliable but still not an effective use of points. The Exarch is also allowed to take a S7 prism rifle which is nifty or a haywire launcher which unlike it's Dark Eldar counterpart, isn't as awesome for creating lots of damage effects.
All in all, these guys are pretty lack-luster. The only thing they have going for them is a 3+/5++ and JSJ. Their guns are really crap and the Eldar army as a whole brings a lot more S6 to the table regardless. They aren't great anti-tank even with ghostlight + cynosure and their anti-infantry obviously sucks though they do have AP2 to scare Terminators and Marines. All in all a typical current Eldar codex Aspect Warrior that tries to be good at something and generally fails. Let's see if we can't hammer out some ideas to fix them then and make them a viable choice.
Shadow Spectres are supposed to be anti-tank specialists but Fire Dragons will always do this better. As we know, Fire Dragons are one of the best units Eldar have access to as they not only offer up excellent anti-tank (and some of the only reliable anti-tank in the whole book) and are one of the few aspect warriors which offer a good specialisation (anti-tank) with passable anti-infantry (an AP4 template). We therefore want our other anti-tank Aspects to do something different. I'd rather Dark Reapers be aimed at suppression with something like S5+2D6 (or just +D3 extra pen) pen guns or something and retain their ability to be murderous to expensive infantry (this includes a price reduction and become slow and purposeful). With Spectres we want pretty good anti-infantry and anti-tank; the middle of the ground anti-tank unit so to speak. The most simple way of doing this is by giving their guns a split profile: anti-tank and anti-infantry. Here's where I think we can use the Ghostlight ability. Rather than combining the power of the guns for a bigger 'anti-tank' shot let's make it an anti-infantry shot and is a 5" blast. I'd also improve their anti-tank shot by making their guns S7 base and/or perhaps lance. Improving their range to 24" (anti-infantry shot 36") would also benefit them greatly.
I'm happy with their Exarch powers though the Exarch guns need some work. The Haywire Launcher needs to be multiple shots and for every hit (actual hit, not damage result) gets to roll on the haywire table. This makes it great at suppression but with only one gun option not super fantastic and also helps with anti-infantry in providing a couple extra shots. I'm happy with the Prism rifle being simple an upgrade in terms of strength but an upgrade to AP1 might be nice as well. Other than that I like the Spectres load-out. Keeping them maxed at units of five is a nice balancing factor but their points would have to drop a lot (20-25). I'd tend to keep them at a 6" JSJ but an upgrade to 12" move and 6" jump would be nice. Otherwise their statline is solid Eldar and the 3+/5++ is nice.
Commence discussion.
gustmic 1p · 745 weeks ago
...and they are only 4+/5++.
...also, the Ghostlight increases range from 12" to 12"+12" per extra member up to 60".
All else I agree on. They still suck.
/gustmic
Kirby 118p · 745 weeks ago
True enough re Ghostlight though if you want two anti-tank shots with the Exarch's gun you'll be within 12".
@FreakyGiraffe · 745 weeks ago
I am disappointed in FW for having made these guys so pants after the models looked so gorgeous (Might get some to act as Warp Spider proxies...). The main points of contention are the terrible weapon stats, the sheer cost of these warriors and their speed. Also, they are not what I imagined them to be rules wise with regards to their name...
To start: The S6 Ap2 gun - now why do you only have 12" of range...? Pathetic. Also, the combining fire idea à la fire Prisms is pretty sweet, but I'd like them to 'sub-combine' rather than using one big shot a turn so multiple S7 ap2 shots could go out of the squad... I agree with you on the anti-infantry thing, that sounds very interesting. Maybe up the range and strength on the weapons whilst keeping the cost of these guys the same?
Their speed you covered nicely, so I won't bore everyone by repeating your words like a Myna bird... *whistles and pretends to be a telephone*.
If they put the cost down and increased their speed, the gun's strength and range, I'd be very happy with this unit. But given that the name 'shadow spectres' sounds frankly awesome - I'd like to suggest the incorporation of a Veil of Tears-like effect to make them even protected whilst they streak towards the enemy... Just my two pence.
I love the models, shame about the rules.
.... any thoughts on the equally beautiful-but-pants Warp Hunter?
Widthofacircle
SageoftheTimes 77p · 745 weeks ago
As to the exarch, even w/ the high cost for the rifle and everything, consider something. If the Exarch w/ the S7 rifle and 3 others combine shots, it's a S 10 TL lance, NOT S 9 KIRBY! So still pretty shit for the cost, yes. As for hit and run....It's like giving crisis suits the option to buy hit and run, they're too fragile to survive vs. combat monsters. 12" move/6" assault move? Yes. Skilled Flier? Yes. TL-ed Ghostlight? Ok. Stealth Fields? SURE! Hit and run.....yeah, not doing it for me.
One thing to note about the models that VT saw, you can make them out of guardians, so no need to pay forgeworld prices.
Zjoekov 74p · 745 weeks ago
To be honest; when I saw the 35 points a model and the T3 with 4 armour save I thought they would have some kind of 'stealth generator' rule, the more because their name has 'shadow' in it. Unfortunately not; you can torrent them down laughable easy.
sholto 1p · 745 weeks ago
SageoftheTimes 77p · 745 weeks ago
Kirby 118p · 745 weeks ago
necroninja 36p · 745 weeks ago
Because you can build on to the prism lance w/ ghostlight, you can actually get one twin-linked S10 AP2 lance shot (at 48" plus JSJ) for 182 points (fully upgraded exarch 3 squad members. w/o withdraw, the price is 167 points)
I'm not sure if that's any good objectively, but it is better than one S9 shot and one S7 shot for 212 pts.
SageoftheTimes 77p · 745 weeks ago
Ianos666 29p · 745 weeks ago
Sorrowshard · 745 weeks ago
If you are an eldar player and give a rats , don't just sound off here and elsewhere online , spend that same time constructively sounding out FW via email, just be sure to tell em the toys are pretty.
unless eldar players want to be screwed in IA11 and the eventual codex we need to make GW/FW aware of the problem, these have been put out like something for the 4th codex but are frankly unacceptable in this age of manticores,vendettas,storm ravens,achilles, hell the storm raven now does what eldar tanks are supposed to do but better in every conceivable way. I want that D cannon to have palpable psychological impact, the model does .....
abusepuppy 121p · 745 weeks ago
The Haywire Blaster is a rather poor inclusion in the squad, but not because the gun itself is bad- getting damage results 2/3 of the time is actually pretty good odds.
Being reliable at hitting/damaging tanks and quite maneuverable, their real issues are fragility, cost, and competition for the slot.
SageoftheTimes 77p · 745 weeks ago
That said, without Fortune, the squad's dead, and it NEEDS a stealth field, or stealth + skilled fliers.
Bro_Lo 82p · 745 weeks ago
The problem lies in the the slots they're eating up. No falcons = mech -> hybrid and that's one step towards footdar I don't want to take. Plus hybridar sounds stupid.
The only reason I see the point is adding in a haywire blaster is to get a 2nd roll on the damage table, but it's probably not worth it in reality.
Kirby 118p · 745 weeks ago
As Bro_Lo said though, JSJ is one of the major things they have going for them.
Heretic · 745 weeks ago
Love the models, confused by the rules, sadly not buying.
Meister_Kai · 745 weeks ago
35 points a piece. 12" gun. T3. W1. Hit and Run?!?!? LOL they'll get wiped by anything that sneezes at them, especially if we are taking the "min" squad of guys people seem to be suggesting.
Yes, they NEED to be fast attack. Even if they were though I would take Hornets way before these guys.
Warp Hunter. 125 points, thats doable, ok, I'm onboard. Oh wait, by "D-Cannon" you mean "Haywire Blaster". Uh-huh. yeah ok. I know asking for the old str 10 D-cannon is asking for this to be MARINE GOOD but c'mon, they could of at least made it a better Haywire Blaster by having it glance on a 2-3, pen on a 4-5, and pen and be ap 1 on a 6. Now I am considering taking this thing, really considering it.
You know whats really pathetic about this though? These units just came out and we are already applying a "whats wrong with this 4th edition unit" template in regards to using logic to figure these units out. This is BAD.
Sorrowshard · 745 weeks ago
Do us a favour and send something to that effect to forgeworld , I completely agree with you , I kinda like the suggested 'fix' to d weps really this needs a bigger tamplate too , as the cobra's generates a humungous pie plate, how/why the technology is surpassed by melta/rail etc etc beggars belief , its no wonder Eldar are in decline and avoid fights.
Why cant the games design move into 5th for xeno ? they really seem to struggle , I'm starting to wonder if its deliberate , its happening too often to be mere coincidence
Archnomad 70p · 745 weeks ago
Shame even when they CRA it still sucks.
Bro_Lo 82p · 745 weeks ago
4 Shadow spectres - Exarch with Prism lance and cynosure - 182 pts.
A unit that should be out of LoS when at range or have a cover save at absolute minimum. Puts out a Str 10 AP2 BS4 Twin-Linked Lance at range or 4 Str 6/7 AP2 shots when shit gets close... and when shit does get close, it should never get close enough with JSJ unless it has a JP of it's own.
I'd like to see the mathhammer on these guys vs AV12/13/14 compared to other weapons.
Not perfect, but I quite like them. If you can find enough hulls in other slots, these guys are not a TERRIBLE choice.
Ianos666 29p · 745 weeks ago
I mean at some point it really does seem to be deliberate. Ever since i started playing marines (all kinds) i honestly realized how bad my opponents wielded them when i fielded Eldar. Marines can in almost all lists pack like 20+ str8+ shots, can have almost the same speed (BAs, Shrike, thunderwolf, land raiders which allow 22" assault), they shut down psychic powers about 50% of the time with dirt cheap HQs AND they are still marines.
I used to win against them with Eldar just because most people in Greece have no idea what MSU and suppression is, but still my victories where a bloody mess with last minute denials. When in the last tournament (vs a hobbyist who barely understood what was going on) i had to charge a hunters squad with full kitted banshees and then scorpions with doom and barely managed to kill them off with only the exarch alive, i decided i really had enough!
Then what? They release yet another anti-infantry MBT at HS slot, another “anti-tank” MBT again at HS and a costly small infantry unit again at HS, all suffering from one gun/one shot syndrome. I mean an AV 12 100+ points MBT with one gun, yeah that gun should better be KOW-POW good night target vehicle, to be worth being suppressed/arm-destroyed from turn 2 onwards.
Excuse for the long rant, I guess what I am trying to emphasize is that the studio is in pitch black on xenos and especially Eldar, they are still stuck on the fear of Marine players being displeased and crying about the Eldar like in the days of old. So I really think this should be a collective effort, we should all make a solid suggestion so we can really have their ear.
Professor Eldritch · 745 weeks ago
Sorrowshard · 745 weeks ago
Do eeeeet
Meister_Kai · 745 weeks ago
neverXmoor 43p · 745 weeks ago
Just in case you didn't see Sorrowshard's not replying directly to your post post.
Sorrowshard · 745 weeks ago
tehixe · 745 weeks ago
Instead, they should have answered the question, "How can we make decent Eldar Fast Attack unit, instead of cramming the already-stuffed Heavy Support section with more garbage?"
abusepuppy 121p · 745 weeks ago
Meister_Kai · 745 weeks ago
To whom it may concern,
Years ago when I was first introduced to the wide and flavorful world that is Warhammer 40,000 I spied a glimpse of something smooth and elegant across the table from a rather bland grouping of angry looking armored fellows at my local game store. This amalgamation of beautiful shapes and figures glided across the table towards the enemy combatants with grace and ease, when the dust settled the brutish army had been repulsed and victory lay with the victorious army, or as my friend called them, the Eldar.
As I am sure you are well aware, the Eldar are known for their specialized and noble Aspect Warriors, their graceful and elegant Grav tanks, and alien technology such as the "Lance" mechanic and Shuriken weaponry.
Years later, I decide to start playing Warhammer 40,000. The race I settle upon is none other than the aforementioned, the Eldar. However, something has happened to the lovable arrogant elves from space I had come to admire in the time between when I started playing and when I had first seem them grace the battlefield.
Editions have come and gone. Armies long forgotten have been updated (the ancient Space Wolves and most recently the masterfully crafted Dark Eldar codex). While I am in fact working on creating my own Dark Eldar force (the Baron-Duke-Reaver alliance just so you know) I have not forgotten nor abandoned my first love in the 40K universe, plain regular ol' Eldar.
However, things have changed for the Eldar. They are no longer feared across the galaxy so to speak. Once feared Aspect Warriors such as Howling Banshees and Striking Scorpions regularly fail to make a dent in Grey Hunter packs before being overthrown by the Space Wolf general troops. Harlequins and other Eldar close combat specialists fail to match up to basic Blood Angel Assault Marines, even when baby-sitted by a Farseer who unfortunately cannot be everywhere at once!
I am not some common tournament player whining about why my army is not winning every tournament or some such, but to even have a fun and equal game against some newer armies an Eldar player is left to forgo a good amount of the historically flavorful and powerful units (who, like the D-cannon, Star Cannon, and others have been reduced in power) for 5 Fire Dragons in a Wave Serpent thrice, a couple of Fire Prisms, a Falcon, and 5 Dire Avengers that sit in their transport as the popular internet acronym "DAVU" (Dire Avenger Vehicle Upgrade) suggests.
(cont)
Ianos666 29p · 745 weeks ago
nico · 744 weeks ago
now i can make a s10 60 inches long shot and blow up a tank, then move in my assault face and they wont get shot. what do i care for the 4+/5++ save, most eldars have crap saves. i ll just make shure no one shots them.
the fire dragons are good for tanks, at a 12 inches distances. wich i hate, its a really dangerous distance. marines have their devastator teams. eldars have the reapers, wich r not for destroying tanks like the devastators but to kill marines, thats why the AP 3 and assault 2.
thats the asppect warrior that eldar needed to counter the tau, or imitate them.
now i want a terminator like (exept for the T and S) assault squad, i dont like tha scorpions or vanshees. vanshees have no S and Scorpions have no energy weapon for all the squad. so or you kill one with the vanshees or you kill 0 with the scorpions. cause marines allways saves my hits!! and i just hate that.
Kirby 118p · 744 weeks ago
nico · 744 weeks ago
Kirby 118p · 744 weeks ago
You're correct the Prism is anti-infantry first but is a capable anti-tank when you combine them; particularly with AP1 which Spectres don't get. JSJ is the only thing spectres have going for them but they are way too expensive especially for a one shot wonder (even with re-rolls).
Victor · 678 weeks ago
perhaps, except railguns are much more cheaper and have AP.1 so much more point efficient .
2 Braodsides with SnP (160 pt.) two twin-linked railguns
Railhaead... aprox 160-170 pt. Also known as mobile cover/LOS blocking building for Crisis suits...
Add in markerlights and youre able to bypass those damned cover saves
nico · 744 weeks ago
lets say i have a prism and my enemy has his heaviest tank. he can blow my tank with a 2 in a d6 while my prism cant, but if my prism can hide after shooting then he cant. and if he shots to the spectres hell just kill one of them. the fire prism just blows up. one shot one kill.
and i dont like the combine strategy. lose one prism and thats it. and you have to buy two to get one shot! while your enemy has a greater advantage.
it could be that i lack your experience, cause i only play against SM and tau (cause thats the only thing i can play against) so i always get owned by their superior owning super distance easy rolling fire power. while i cant have that for the same price.
and i have constant bad luck for dices. so i dont like how they get to roll 2 or more to own me and i who have bad luck and never get a shot with a skill of 4 and i cant get any better.
and my prism always blows up in the firs or second turn.
tell me, do i just have bad luck or i am making some kind of sense??
Kirby 118p · 744 weeks ago
I have no idea how your opponent is blowing up a Prism on a 2. You need to hit (generally 4+), pen (3+ for S10) and then wreck (5+ unless AP1). If you're trying to point out tanks are capable of being killed by one shot whilst infantry are not, you are correct which is why you take saturation (lots of vehicles) and it doesn't make vehicles bad or not worth taking (particularly compared to an over-priced infantry unit).
Combining = utility; not necessity. See the trend with Prisms?
Prisms are the weakest tank outside of Vypers in the Eldar arsenal due to no energy shields or holo-fields. This means they are targeted earlier by opponents with proper target priority. It doesn't mean they are obsolete.
nico · 744 weeks ago
sorry if you didnt get the first part(english is not my native lenguage) what i ment is that the heaviest vehicule of the SM (for example) can do a better job against the prism.
my main point is a fire prism is an easy target the spectres are not, because they move in the assault phase, and if you do it right they are not a target at all. so you can have what the prism has without having to lose is at the begining because its an easy target.
pd: i raed your other post and i would like to know what use would you give the wraithguard.
wave launcher · 430 weeks ago