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Thursday, January 6, 2011

Tyranid army: No Hive Guard



So following on from my post in relation to Tyranids and the 'great debate' over their viability and options in 5th edition I think I'll do some lists highlighting the examples provided. The two primary examples of this were running lists without Hive Guard or Tervigons respectively. I'll do my first post on a list without Hive Guard as they are the most expensive to get (bloody metal blisters!) and hardest to convert without forking out some cash (Tervigons are pretty easy with the plastic-Fex kit).

So the main army I highlighted without Hive Guard used Zoans and Dakkafexes. Let's look at this in more detail. My 'standard' T6'R'Us list useless a lot of T6 wounds and midfield dominance from Tervigons/Termagants to move steadily across the field, suppress most armor and eventually swarm the enemy with buffed gribblies and lots of MC statlines. What the Hive Guard in this list do is provide high strength and high rate of firepower on the move and once in midfield, particularly if there is any LoS blocking terrain there, can dominate a battlefield. As discussed before, there is really nothing else which does this so we have to change the army as the HG/T-Fex/Tervigon is going to be weak in this regard. What Zoanthropes bring is short-ranged actual anti-tank but is less effective against lists with psychic defense. Otherwise, Zoans are much better at taking down actual battle-tanks and due to AP1 are more likely to wreck tanks. Zoans are also more effective anti-infantry platforms than Hive Guard as they are able to fire 3" blasts as well. Dakkafexes on the other and bring a lot of S6 firepower to the table which is also-short ranged and on a quite survivable platform. What lots of S6 does is provide very effective anti-infantry firepower and suppress armor. These platforms are still MCs which are quite powerful in CC as well.

What the combination of these two units does is overcome the lack of Hive Guard. Now, taking two units to do the job of one unit sounds backwards, after all, why not just take the one unit? However, both of these units are better than Hive Guard at their respective roles. Whilst Hive Guard are indoubtably better at dropping light mech compared to either Zoans or Dakkafexes, Zoans are much better at taking down heavy tanks and Dakkafexes are much better at suppressing light armor. However, both of these units are short-ranged (18") which is its own problem. What options does the Tyranid list have to overcome this range issue? There are T-Fexes but running both Fexstars and T-Fexes can be problematic and they, like Hive Guard, are like a cross between Dakkafexes and Zoans in being able to damage high AV armor and suppress low AV armor but do neither as well. So for the moment we'll consider one of these but isn't going to answer our problem and points will become a new problem. Harpies and Tyrants can take Heavy Venom Cannons which are also long ranged and both capable of suppression fire and anti-infantry and some more combat ability. These might be options in the end but are also a drain on our points. Spores for the Zoans helps them getting in range and protects them against shooting for a couple of turns as well but can delay their actual arrival. Tervigons are also a possibility through their power Onslaught which allows units to both run and shoot. This option also gives a solid midfield presence to support our specialised firepower so for the moment we'll go with these guys.

So let's start building the list. Zoans have a one rather annoying issue with psychic defenses so against these armies we want as many as possible. This means taking three per squad. Against non-defensed up armies this can be overkill but we need to account for those armies which do have them. Three squads of three will set us back an impressive 540 points but gives us some quite survivable anti-tank and anti-infantry weaponry. To ensure we can surpress armor we're taking the Dakka fexes and runing then in pairs called Fexstars. Each of these guys is 190 points and 2x2 sets us back a further 760 points (1300 total). Both of these units are quite survivable with W2/T4/3++ and W4/T6/3+ respectively but we've chewed up a lot of points already so we either have the option of sinking more points into Tervigons to make a decent midfield and speed up these units or spend the points on support for these units. For the moment we'll go the Tervigon route.

Two min-sized squads of Termagants opens up Tervigons as Troops and with adrenal glands, toxin sacs and onslaught we're set back 490 points (1790 total). This only leaves us with 210 points and no HQ. We could run a Tervigon as an HQ but we lose the advantage of a scoring MC and are heavily relying on the Tervigons to produce good Termagant numbers so for the moment we'll keep them both as Troops. We'll then take a small HQ through a Prime as a Tyrant will most likely be too expensive. Lash Whip, Bonesword, Toxin and Regen provides a very capable CC monster which can help out the Termagants and Fexes whilst sucking up wounds and pushes our points total to 1905 points. We now have the issue of what to spend our points on from here. Raveners would be an ideal choice as they can distract the enemy quickly and early and draw firepower from our short-ranged firepower units but we don't have the points for these. We'll take the next best thing then with Hormagaunts who are cheap and we can get quite a few for 95 points (16 for 90 points). This helps support the Tervigons/Termagants and whilst not as fast as beasts, will be able to get to the enemy quicker and tie up bubble-wrap units or engaged forward defensive screens.

The list therefore ends up at:

Prime w/LW, BS, Toxin, Regen
3x3x Zoanthropes
2x10x Termagants
2x Tervigon w/Adrenal, Toxin, Onslaught
16x Hormagaunts
2x2x Carnifexes w/2x TL-Brainleech worms

Totals: 1995 points
6 MCs
46 infantry

Not as impressive in combat as the normal T6'R'Us list without the Tyrant but probably better at anti-tank as there is no weakness against AV14 with 9 S10 AP1 lance shots. This list also has options in replacing the Fexstars with T-Fexes and then running a Dakkarant or running the Dakkafexes as singles and pairing them up with Primes. This saves points which we can buy Raveners and put more pressure on the enemy but less S6 suppression fire.

Comments (16)

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Auretious Taak's avatar

Auretious Taak · 743 weeks ago

What about Harpies with twin-linked Heavy Venom Cannons Kirby? a pair at 170 odd points each brings long range support fire as well as a really solid ability to deal with massed infantry lists. It'd leave a few extra points but also open up more targets suppressed with long range firepower.
Wish you had the extra points for another prime in there. At which point you could put a single prime in each fex star as a wound pool with regen. Making it that much more resilient. If you dropped 2 of the zoan squads down to 2, you could get another prime in and pump the horms up to 20 probably.
Without cover saves, I don't think the Fexes are as worthwhile- I think a better way to run this would be 2x1 on Dakkafexes, 2x Primes to hang out with them (taking a Deathspitter and LW/BS/Tox) and two Harpies (which I think you can afford) to get your long-range shots. That gives you short- and long-range suppression and short-range and melee tank killing, which I feel is a better option.
1 reply · active 743 weeks ago
Another good option rather than the Fex/T-Fex combination mentioned in the last para.
You seem to be trying to make a gunline without HG. Why not angle the list toward Tyranids other abilities such as surprise/disruption or CC. Making a gunline without HG just seems silly. You can make one but it'll never be anywhere near as good.

Maybe I'll try my hand at one after the gym...
I like this list.

Now try building one with 9 lictors. Its a fun exercise.
3 replies · active 742 weeks ago
1 Hive Tyrant (HVC, HC, Wings)
3 Lictors
3 Lictors
3 Lictors
3 Tyranid Warriors (Boneswords, Adrenal, 1 VC, Spore w/VC)
3 Tyranid Warriors (Boneswords, Adrenal, 1 VC, Spore w/VC)
15 Termagants (Devourers, Spore)
15 Termagants (Devourers, Spore)
1 Harpy (HVC)
1 Harpy (HVC)

Not a great list, and very vulnerable to poor reserve rolls on the first turn (having 1/2 your stuff come in and the rest not can get you wiped out pretty badly), but reasonable. Also a little light on scoring units, but hopefully it can put pressure on the opponent with assaults and such. I think it would run better in a smaller list (1500 or so) with 3x2 Lictors, or with some Zoanthopes supporting things, but 3x3 can work. I also avoided cheating by running 2x3 and having Deathleaper.
Just as a counter-point, this is the 2k list I came up with and ran successfully for a while (proxying).

Swarmlord: 280

2 Tyrant Guard: 130
Lash Whips

3 Lictors: 195

3 Lictors: 195

3 Lictors: 195

30 Hormagaunts: 240
Toxin Sacs

Tervigon: 185
Catalyst, Toxin Sacs

10 Termagants: 50

10 Termagants: 50

18 Gargoyles: 126
Adrenal Glands

18 Gargoyles: 126
Adrenal Glands

Trygon Prime: 240

2000

I think Lictors work best when comboed with an assault-focused Nid list. Swarmlord helps make sure they show up on turn 2. List worked like a charm.
justin kruse's avatar

justin kruse · 742 weeks ago

Im a licter fan my self sir! good call
Another option for the fex's is to be taken as singles with a pod. Admittedly you'd have half as many, but with the saving's you'd be able to pick up a Tyrant with hive commander. The hive commander could be used to either outflank the hormies making them similar to budget stealers or a Tervi allowing a MC to arrive on location unmolested (but unable to spawn upon arrival); if you do this obviously you should take Catalyst as onslaught would be best for running fexstars forward for some earlier shooting. Giving an arriving Tervi FNP and outflanking it into cover (even if just 5+) means it should last long enough to survive even mass missile spam (with a 5+ cover save and FNP it would take ~32 BS4 missile shots to drop it the turn it arrives).

Gaining HC would increase the arrival rate of the zoans and could help shut down mech in the 2nd/3rd turn. The loss of 2 fex would be offset by the gain in a Tyrant who is by comparison better and more synergistic (admittedly deep-striking with wings is also more risky).

Only problem I see with making this change is the tyrant would likely be best with wings and at least one set of TL-devs and likely a garg shield (unless you're deep-striking; I believe HC works if the tyrant is in reserves...). To save points the Zoans could be dropped to 2 per pod (saving almost 200 pts) as they are more reliable given they should arrive earlier.

These changes might also be better with further changes drawing the list more to a drop pod/flying circus style build...
^^Done it and love it! I'm currently building 6 more of the bastards out of warrior parts :D
Some very quick lists... and I mean very...

Hive Tyrant - Wings, Heavy Venom Cannon, Hive Commander - 280
Swarmlord - 280
Zoanthrope brood x 2 - Mycetic Spore - 160
Zoanthrope brood x 2 - Mycetic Spore - 160
Zoanthrope brood x 1 - Mycetic Spore - 100
Genestealers x 10 + Broodlord - 200
Genestealers x 10 + Broodlord - 200
Genestealers x 10 + Broodlord - 200
Trygon - Adrenal Glands - 210
Trygon - Adrenal Glands - 210
2000
3 replies · active 743 weeks ago
Tyranid prime - LW/BS, Deathspitter - 100
Tyranid Prime - LW/BS, Deathspitter - 100
Venomthrope - 55
Venomthrope - 55
Zoanthrope - 60
Tyranid Warriors x 6 - Rending Claws, Deathspitters, Adrenal Glands - 270
Tyranid Warriors x 6 - Rending Claws, Deathspitters, Adrenal Glands - 270
Hormagaunts - 15 - 90
Hormagaunts - 15 - 90
Genestealers x 6 + Broodlord - 144
Genestealers x 6 + Broodlord - 144
Tyrannofex - Rupture Cannon - 265
Tyrannofex - Rupture Cannon - 265
Biovore x 2 - 90
1998
Hive Tyrant - HVC - 195
Hive Tyrant - HVC - 195
Zoanthrope x 2 - Mycetic Spore - 160
Venomthrope - 55
Venomthrope - 55
Tyranid Warriors x 3 - Rending claws, Deathspitter - 120
Tyranid Warriors x 3 - Rending claws, Deathspitter - 120
Genestealers 5 + Broodlord - 130
Genestealers 5 + Broodlord - 130
Genestealers 5 + Broodlord - 130
Harpy - T-L HVC - 170
Harpy - T-L HVC - 170
Carnifex - HVC - 185
Carnifex - HVC - 185
2000
All would be fun to play IMO and would certainly do well against all but very strong tournaments.

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