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"...generalship should be informing list building." - Sir Biscuit

Thursday, February 24, 2011
Space Wolves Herohammer, 1850pts, Re-tooled; Event Horizon List
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Auretious Taak
Space Wolves Herohammer, 1850pts, Re-tooled.
So, Kirby in his arrogance is refusing to have a game against my Herohammer Space Wolves with his Tyranids. He claims that he will win and it is inconcievable that I stand even the slightest chance against him. In Kirby's own words "it would be a pointless exercise in futility." Those are my own words. It does not mean I will win. Remember I'm not the one to have claimed I win all tourney setting games. In fact, I've never made any claims about my playing ability. What the quote means is it won't prove anything. You either have to really outplay me (or anyone as you don't have any ranged firepower; remember you beat Dennis because he multi-assaulted not knowing you were S10), or have insane dice/my dice are terribad. It's not just me who's saying this. If you win you prance around going look it works lalalala and continue ignoring all criticisms to list (which is the main issue here). If I win...yay I spent a couple hours of my life doing what exactly? I cannot foresee myself having fun because of these outcomes so why would I submit myself to it? Ergo, exercise in futility; not I'm gonna win so what's the point.
So I figure the only way i am going to get a game against him is if I am lucky enough to get a draw against him in a tournament which we both attend because he won't grudge me if I'm packing Herohammer, or any army for that matter - I figure it's because if I do beat him with such an army, he'll never live it down, which, in all honesty, especially where he stands on the matter of the army and how crap it is on a competitively balanced level and how much scorn he's heaped on me for it, would be rather funny, and no, he'd never live it down. *ponders* I haven't actually heaped crap on it. I've said it's a one-dimensional army and unless you badger me about it, I don't talk about it. And grudging at tournaments is silly *finds worst player with worst list* I'll grudge you for an easy seal club! Now I'm in the top bracket yesssss. So I'd never grudge anyone. Ever. Now that we have our Kirby facts straight let's listen to taak.
That all said, I was originally going to run Herohammer at every tournament I could get to this year, so yeah...Event Horizon here I come. Event Horizon, for those not aware is a new Non-Comp based tournament being held here in Sydney for the first time this year, run by the current High Lord of Terra (Australia's current equivalent of a Nationals Tournament collecting the top ranking players from the larger tournaments each year at an invite only event, whilst the rest of the players get to play in the open, but the High lords is where it's at in terms of prestige and whilst comped, it is incredibly competitive so don't go dissing it all you comp haters as it also includes winners of non-comp events too) Dennis Fung whom I beat with Herohammer at Cryx Cup in the last round there. So it seems kind of poetic and fitting. The aim for me at the tournament, as with any tournament, is to win a single game. But there's a problem. We're at 1,850pts and the Herohammer is 1,750pts...and we need to try and up the survivability/strengths further if possible, so that means some modifying of the army.
First up, Warrior Born lord - Twin Frost Weapons is cool...2 options, i) increase resilience with a Stormshield, thus losing 1 attack but staying alive longer, or, ii) lose an attack but gain flexibility in attacks by running a frost weapon and a thunder hammer thereby being able to tailor my weapon of choice against whatever I am facing.
Second of all, to make it more survivable and do more damage from the get go, a drop pod for the terminators. The Drop Pod will die, but getting first turn Foehammer/Jaws of the Wolf funsies on say, a Trygon, could be high-larious, but really to just get in point blank with the slow ass terminator half of the army from the first turn onwards. The Bikers and Thunderwolves are fast enough to catch up.
1850pts is 100pts more then the standard 1750pts I've run it at, and I had previously decided to run Lone Wolves up to 2,000pts, but thanks to a chap by the name of Mark over in New Zealand who sent me an email recently asking for some advice on an 1850pt version of the list he was going to run for a comp tourney, I'm going to pinch his expansion and add in a single Thunderwolf Cavalry model with a Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield, which means cutting points here and there. But that's okay as both Thunderwolf Lords suddenly have another ablative paired wounds not to mention even more strength 10 smack down and if the Thunderwolf Lord with the Warrior Born Saga has a Frost Blade and a Thunder Hammer, then that is one huge ass amount of strength 10 smack down (14-17 attacks base depending on a charge/successful counter-attacking) and I have the ability to split off and hit 3 separate heavily armoured targets with that sort of smackdown which, lets be honest, is bloody epic.
Where does this put me?
HQ 1a) Logan Grimnar - 275pts
HQ 1b) Njal Storm Caller in Runic Terminator Armour - 270pts
HQ 2a) Wolf Lord
Thunderwolf Mount, Wolf Tail Talisman, Wooftooth Necklace, Runic Armour, Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer, Saga of the Bear - 275pts
HQ 2b) Wolf Lord
Thunderwolf Mount, Wolf Tail Talisman, Wooftooth Necklace, Runic Armour, Belt of Russ, Frost Weapon, Thunder Hammer, Saga of the Warrior Born - 295pts
Troops 1) 3 Wolf Guard
Space Marine Bike, Power Armour, Storm Shield
1xThunder Hammer; 1xFrost Weapon & Melta-Bombs; 1xMark of the Wulfen & Bolt Pistol - 299pts
Troops 2) 3 Wolf Guard
1xArjac Rockfist
2xTerminator Armour (1x2xChainfists; 1xStormshield, Storm Bolter & Mark of the Wulfen)
Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod w/Storm Bolter - 349pts
Fast Attack 1) Thunderwolf Cavalry
Power Armour, Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer - 110pts
1873pts - 23pts over-points.
First up we can salvage points on the Warrior Born Lord, downgrading the Thunderhammer to a Powerfist and the Frost Weapon to a Wolf Claw. Wolf Claw at str 5 is still decent especially when you are hitting on a 3+ all the time so that's 10pts saved down to 13pts left, Same deal with the Thunderwolf Cavalry chap, downgrade the Thunderhammer to a Powerfist which saves another 5pts dropping us to 8pts left to salvage. Downgrading the Frost Weapon on the Biker Wolf Guard to a Wolf Claw loses a bit of punch but keeps flexibility and hitting power in terms of by-passing armour saves and as much as i don't want to lose the protection in terms of a split/killed Lords, ditching a Wolf Tail Talisman on one of the Thunderwolf Lords gets us the last points to make it legal, so ditching the one on the Warrior Born Lord as he dies faster, so all on longterm preservation.
The list then looks like this:
1,850pts Herohammer Space Wolves
HQ 1a) Logan grimnar - 275pts
HQ 1b) Njal Storm Caller in Runic Terminator Armour - 270pts
HQ 2a) Wolf Lord
Thunderwolf Mount, Wolf Tail Talisman, Wooftooth Necklace, Runic Armour, Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer, Saga of the Bear - 275pts
HQ 2a) Wolf Lord
Thunderwolf Mount, Wooftooth Necklace, Runic Armour, Belt of Russ, Wolf Claw, Powerfist, Saga of the Warrior Born - 280pts
Troops 1) 3 Wolf Guard
Space Marine Bike, Power Armour, Storm Shield
1xThunder Hammer; 1xWolf Claw & Melta-Bombs; 1xMark of the Wulfen & Bolt Pistol - 294pts
Troops 2) 3 Wolf Guard
1xArjac Rockfist
2xTerminator Armour (1x2xChainfists; 1xStormshield, Storm Bolter & Mark of the Wulfen)
Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod w/Storm Bolter - 349pts
Fast Attack 1) Thunderwolf Cavalry
Power Armour, Storm Shield, Powerfist - 105pts
Total = 1,848 points
Models = 12
Kill Points = 8
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Space Wolves Herohammer, 1850pts, Re-tooled; Event Horizon List
2011-02-24T06:32:00+11:00
Auretious Taak
Army Lists|Auretious Taak|Event Horizon|Space Wolves|Warhammer 40k|
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Bro_Lo 82p · 736 weeks ago
Only joking Taak. I do like it... but TWC and biker WG with PA and SS are an obvious target for anything worse than AP4+.
Auretious Taak · 736 weeks ago
Kirby 118p · 736 weeks ago
ManusCelerDei 53p · 736 weeks ago
Archnomad · 736 weeks ago
Bro_Lo 82p · 736 weeks ago
"I'm going to pinch his expansion and add in a single Thunderwolf Cavalry model with a Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield, which means cutting points here and there. But that's okay as both Thunderwolf Lords suddenly have another ablative paired wounds not to mention.."
If you mean the Wolf Lords gain some ablative wounds by joining to the TWC, then I'm sad. You clearly didn't learn from the Mephiston Saga. Independant characters cannot join units of 1 model unless said unit is also an IC.
So... your 110pt TWC will die to 6 wounds on avg.. not so great to be honest :(
Kirby 118p · 736 weeks ago
vehicle or vehicle units
units which ONLY may ever consist of one model
units with a rule against it
This is why Primes can join single Fexes in make 'fexstars' and why Mephy could not join Dante. Since the TWC model has an option for multiple bodies, the IC can happily join him.
Bro_Lo 82p · 736 weeks ago
I was under the impression that he had to leave when the unit dropped from 2 to 1. My bad.
Kirby 118p · 736 weeks ago
willydstyle · 736 weeks ago
Auretious Taak · 736 weeks ago
sinsynn 106p · 736 weeks ago
uh...ok, sure.
I hope you don't face anything somewhat shooty...like mech IG, or Razorspam, or Long Fang Spam, or Dark Eldar, or Tau, or Jetbike Seer Council, a pair of Storm Ravens in a BA list, or DA/Templar CML's, or something similar...
If you DO see those lists, I hope they're run by someone who's, uh, 'new-ish, ' and has no idea how to block/speedbump/torrent.
With any luck, you'll face off against 3 Necron Armies, and then it's in the bag.
Unless they know how to block/speedbump/torrent...then yer McF*cked.
Good luck!
Really curious to see how this works out. Really.
Auretious Taak · 736 weeks ago
Second army was primarily a gunline list:
http://kirbysblog-ic.blogspot.com/2011/01/3-for-3...
I honestly hope I do face such armies. And Jetbike Seer Councils? They have psychic powers of which I nullify 2/3's of them, and wow, they can boost 24" away from me, I can boost 24" after them or move and assault 19-24", and that's with HALF of my army. Storm Ravens are like anything else, they have a bit of firepower and my entire army sits there with an invulnerable save and takes it like a man, mixed armour/wound units also increase the survivabilityu considerably and if the Storm ravens rush me instead, lord help the fools jumping out to assault me because that's where I NEED to be.
Kirby 118p · 736 weeks ago
Auretious Taak · 736 weeks ago
Auretious Taak · 736 weeks ago
The Herohammer has a suprising amount of speed for 12 models. Also Razorspam and Long Fang Spam should be part of the same list - who are you playing that this isn't the case? Tell them to man up and play Razorspam properly. Static firepower armies, yeah, so what? Blocking et al? So what? I'll just kill the stuff in the way (it's surprisingly easy with massed str 8/10 attacks in combat) or move around it if possible and worthwhile.
I'm not afraid of such armies, I'll take it verse anything, it's a fun army, a challenging army and the fact you and so many other people keep underestimating it and missing the point of the armies just makes me face palm repeatedly.
sinsynn 106p · 736 weeks ago
I really do wish you luck- I would never wish for even the most harebrained schemer to have a bad day.
You believe? Then go get 'em, brother.
Let us know how it went.
Uh...everybody man up and play Razorspam properly ;)
sinsynn 106p · 736 weeks ago
Seriously- just bustin' chops.
Have a good tourney.
Auretious Taak · 735 weeks ago
Jason · 736 weeks ago
Njal Stormcaller, terminator armour, 270
Wolf Lord, thunder hammer, storm shield, thunderwolf mount, wolf tooth necklace, runic armour, saga of the bear, wolf tail talisman 275
Wolf Lord, wolf claw, storm shield, thunderwolf mount, wolf tooth necklace, runic armour, saga of the warrior born, wolf tail talisman 265
2x Thunderwolf Cavalry, storm shield and meltabomb, storm shield and thunderhammer 195
2x Thunderwolf Cavalry, storm shield and meltabomb, storm shield and thunderhammer 195
5 Wolf Guard Terminator, cyclone storm bolter chain fist, storm bolter power fist, storm bolter wolf claw, storm shield storm bolter mark of the wulfen, power weapon storm bolter 260
5 Wolf Guard Terminator, cyclone storm bolter chain fist, storm bolter power fist, storm bolter wolf claw, storm shield storm bolter mark of the wulfen, power weapon storm bolter 260
Total 1985
It might be playable, although still a tough ask. Drop a thunderwolf unit to reduce the points.
Jason · 736 weeks ago
Archnomad · 736 weeks ago
Brwrr · 736 weeks ago
Auretious Taak · 736 weeks ago
I'd like to point something out that Kirby missed in the game verse Dennis at Cryx Cup:
[quote]You either have to really outplay me (or anyone as you don't have any ranged firepower; remember you beat Dennis because he multi-assaulted not knowing you were S10), [/quote]
This is untrue. He still would have lost that combat and lost everything EXCEPT FOR THE HARPY. Instead of winning the combat by 12 I would have won it by 10, in any case, all the termagant units in that combat (4 from memory) were wiped out with more wounds from fearless failed then they had to save and the damage still done to the remaining big beasties in there. The Harpies had minimal impact in the game otherwise. Don't under-sell the victory Kirby, you've done it again and again, I had some luck on armour saves sure, but I also played really well and capitalised on the slightest mistakes people made at the event, that is why I managed to win all my games - because I outplayed everyone.
Auretious Taak · 736 weeks ago
Furthermore: [quote] Those are my own words. It does not mean I will win. Remember I'm not the one to have claimed I win all tourney setting games. In fact, I've never made any claims about my playing ability.[/quote]
Except in the car after our game at Hornsby Mr. I'm still undefeated! :p ;)
The thing with 3++ is that NONE of us have stated we are gods gift to 40k. None of us prance around saying we are the best and everyone else sucks. None of us suffer from head so far up our ass it shoots out our mouth syndrome commonly referred to as The Stelek Syndrome (Reapers and Swooping hawks? WTF!). I freely admit my own weaknesses and again and again it's emphasised in the deployment phase for me, I ALWAYS screw it up.
Auretious Taak · 736 weeks ago
Kirby 118p · 736 weeks ago
Re: car. Ya, pretending to be a douche after Vince pointed out I hadn't lost since Lords of Terra even though I've played what 20 games? That's unusual at not the norm and certainly nothing like this:
"I got bored of winning all my games when I put my mind to it and ran strong Competitively Balanced Armies, so i wanted something different." from http://kirbysblog-ic.blogspot.com/2011/01/heroham...
People haven't said it's crap because you played it in a comp environment. They are saying it's crap in general as a competitive list. For fluff or just lol factor, it's a great idea though if you beat people who whine about things...prepare for whining. The issue is when people do criticise it you come across as not listening. Ever. You may think you do but you generally do not.
To be clear, I'm not taking anything from your win over Dennis. Capitalising on your opponent's mistakes is how you win 40k so you get kudos for that. Rather, it's not a validation of the list.
Auretious Taak · 736 weeks ago
To the car after Hornsby, you will note my emotes and the playful comments there. Why so serious?
Kirby 118p · 736 weeks ago
It's the Internet. I have to be serious...
TheWolfsLunch 61p · 731 weeks ago
Scrubs like me :D
Auretious Taak · 736 weeks ago
I'm not ignoring the criticisms, you'll note that I was one of the first people to list all the criticisms of the list myself, I know the strengths (it gets to combat, you die) and I certainly know the weaknesses as there are a bugger load. I prance around alot, so what? This is me, it happens with lots of things. The original 1750pt list worked surprisingly well in a comp environment, winning 3 games so close to tabling each opponent isn't just blind luck there and not just skillmanship of play, there are elements which make it a very strong army especially against some forces out there, others you crap yourself in deployment and hope you make it to turn two.
Auretious Taak · 736 weeks ago
WTF IS UP WITH SWEET F ALL AMOUNT OF CHARACTERS TO RESPOND WITH FFS!
Auretious Taak · 736 weeks ago
Auretious Taak · 736 weeks ago
[/quote]
Playing a game and maybe learning something from it? Emperor knows, I've learnt a few more refined tricks playing the list and I know a few people have learnt some more general approaches when facing Loganwing no matter how avant guarde it is.
Cheers all,
Taak.
P.S. I'm looking forwards to messing with the above refined list, slightly different to the 1750pt version in how it plays, so it should be interesting in any case.
Auretious Taak · 736 weeks ago
Kirby 118p · 736 weeks ago
VT2 79p · 736 weeks ago
chumbalaya 79p · 736 weeks ago
It's a hilarious army concept and looks like a lot of fun to play, but we all know it's not a competitive army.
Neil · 736 weeks ago
Thunderwolf Mount, Wooftooth Necklace, Runic Armour, Belt of Russ, Wolf Claw, Powerfist, Saga of the Warrior Born - 280pts
- What is the deal with this guy? How could Wolf Claw + Powerfist possibly be a good idea? Way too many points for a tiny bit of extra flexibility (and you need to do maths about which of three different options is best each combat, blah!). Just because the theme is having rediculously expensive things doesn' t mean you have to flush points down the toilet. Oh wait I just realised you have one guy with 2x chainfists.. o.0
I think I could have a red hot go against this with my Arc list (which is 1200 points).
Will · 736 weeks ago
Kirby 118p · 736 weeks ago
@Refyougee · 736 weeks ago
Will · 736 weeks ago
abusepuppy 121p · 736 weeks ago
Against people who don't know how to block, delay, and shoot you, you'll probably be able to pull off wins, but you have very few scoring units and are vulnerable to... well a whole lot of things. I can get behind the concept of Herohammer, but I don't think it's a good army and this isn't really even the best way to build it.
TheWolfsLunch 61p · 731 weeks ago
Thrungrom · 736 weeks ago
Anyhow i find it diffucult myself to include Logan in armies myself, just like BTF.
I would always run LF with Logan + CML.
VT2 79p · 736 weeks ago
If anyone claims otherwise, laugh at them.
The problem is that this blog is primarily about competitive gaming in warhams grimdark.
I win all the time with my grey knights on foot, but that's not a competitive list, and EVERYBODY here knows this. Just like yours isn't competitive, either, Taak.
It's a low-model rock, with firepower issues - like my GK army. Both are good for a laugh, and while you can beat face with either of them, that's not gonna happen against balanced lists, or even unbalanced paper armies, ran by good players.
Ergo, reading more rants about 'herohammer: mark XXII' isn't interesting to most of the readerbase.
Behemothh · 736 weeks ago
Nice try, and for the love of christ, stop the hero hammer.
Auretious Taak · 735 weeks ago
wisdom like silence · 736 weeks ago
Auretious Taak · 735 weeks ago