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Saturday, September 3, 2011

Tyranid Design Philosophies: What Needs to Change



It's no secret that I'm a very 'Niddy guy. I've written a lot about them in the past, I've argued for their viability to various degrees, I've struggled with alternate builds. But I don't write a lot about them anymore. Sometimes, but not often.

Partly it's no fault of their own- I've been playing the army for several years and wanted to start on a new one. I had a lot of fun with them and gotten a lot of mileage out of the codex and enjoyed converting up a lot of their units. I am not raging furious over them getting an update relatively early in 5th Edition.

At the same time, it very much is- I've gotten fed up with the limitations of the book and the repeated slaps in the face GW has given the faction. Especially looking at the other 5E releases, it's hard not to be unhappy with the results; until the recent Sisters of Battle debacle, no other current update had gone so wrong in terms of making the army viable, flexible, and fun at all levels of competition. While it's certainly better off than those books that have not yet gotten an update, like Eldar, Chaos Marines, etc, there is really no excuse for the mess that Cruddace made of it. Add in the kicks in the teeth from Grey Knights (and to a lesser degree Dark Eldar) and you have a pretty unhappy combination of factors.



So while I may still like Tyranids, there are a lot of very real problems with them these days, so I've ended up shelving them for the time being; I don't really want to put work into an army that I'll be unhappy with on the tabletop when I have dozens of other projects I'll enjoy more. If Tyranids are going to get a 6th Edition update, and it's not unreasonable to imagine they might, although they certainly won't be at the top of the list by any means, there are some things that I think need to change at the design studio.

I hope you're ready for this, because it's not going to be short. Neither is it going to be a "make my bugs better by reducing their points you see" rant- in fact, I don't even want to talk about points or specifics if I can. This is going to be about the army's philosophy and design ethos that drives the specific choices that are made, not about those specifics themselves.

*deep breath*

Into the Rabbit Hole


The very first problem we run into is that the designers just don't know what the hell Tyranids are about. Yeah, they're space bugs from space who eat everything, we get that. What's their army theme? Space Marines are super-generalists with strong utility abilities. Imperial Guard are a saturation shooting army that trades reliability for volume and resilience for numbers. Space Wolves are a close-in shooting/combat hybrid version of normal SM. Blood Angels are a mobility/resilience army with a flamer/melta theme snuck in. Dark Eldar are paper-thin offense whores that rely on getting the drop on their enemy (going first, striking first, etc.) Grey Knights are mid-range elite shooting/melee hybrid to trump other elite armies.

What the hell are Tyranids supposed to be? They aren't a good swarm army- none of their small bugs can hurt a tank, and most of them are terrible at close combat as well because of the way No Retreat works- moreover, you can't even DO an all small bugs army because you need Synapse. They aren't a midrange army because all of their medium bugs die too easily with 4+ (or worse) armor and no Eternal Warrior. They aren't a big bugs army because of the huge price tags associated with such models and the middling toughness (no EW, no invulnerable, no access to cover saves) of such models. They aren't a shooting army because most all of their guns are shorter range than their counterparts, often 24" or less. They aren't a melee army because they can't beat most other top-end melee units even with their best tricks (due to lacking grenades, invulnerable saves, etc) and because the melee army has no way to deal with tanks. It isn't an on-table army because its movement is, in most cases, fairly slow and ponderous and it can't afford to soak up the shooting that opposing forces dish out. It isn't a reserve army because the FAQ specifically denied them that option.

So what the fuck are Tyranids good at?

The simple answer is "Nothing, really." GW (or, perhaps, Cruddace, though he is hardly the sole author of the codex) doesn't really know what they want the army to do, so it does a bunch of things mediocrely and that's it. You can build for resilience- and, indeed, this is the most effective build- but you're not the best at it and you're not good enough, especially not when so many people have ways to bypass what you do.

In short, Games Workshop needs to take a good, long, look at the army and figure out where it needs to go in the future.

Fluffy Little Bunnies


The first step to this is fairly simple: get solidly behind the fluff and support it on the tabletop. Gasp! I know, a competitive player advocating adherence to the fluff? I like fluff. I think fluff can lead to a lot of great things, but I am not such a strict believer in it that I think it should supercede the rules of the game- instead, it should inform them. The fluff tells us that Tyranids are a horde army of the highest caliber, that they win by overwhelming even armies like the Imperial Guard with their sheer, unending numbers.

Well, let's do that. Let's make it so when you play Tyranids, you have a ton of stuff. Tervigons are a good start to that- fighting against Tervigons can feel like boxing with the ocean, as you hit it and hit it and hit it and never seem to make any progress in slowing it down. Why not apply that concept across the whole army? (The concept, mind you, not the mechanic- we do not need something that spawns 1d6 Carnifexes every turn.) Give Tyranids the ability to field large numbers of models- GW isn't going to be sad about that, they love it when people buy models. Give them the ability to replenish themselves by bringing models back, even to a limited degree. The boosts to the Wounds stat on the large Tyranid creatures were a good move, I feel- it makes them overwhelmingly large, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that trend.

Just as importantly, let there be different kinds of swarms. Make it viable to field a horde of small creatures led by one or two warrior beasts (without them being easily just gunned down to deny the army synapse.) Let players bring a ton of medium-sized monsters or a surprising number of huge beasts to the table, Make a mixed swarm viable, even while keeping the principles of saturation in mind.

Small swarms don't work right now because they lack the ability to harm vehicles and because it is too easy to just whittle them down. Tyranids shouldn't be losing by wars of attrition; that is their strong point. We'll talk about the issue with tanks later, but I'll just note in this part that Imperial armies, and even the DE army, don't have to worry about the majority of their squads being incapable of performing a particular function; Tyranids shouldn't get stuck in that boat.

Mid-size swarms have never really been viable, but with Warriors in troops they started to almost be a thing until Instant Death came and ruined the party. Cover helps mitigate this, but without MCs to distract those missiles, they will eat into you and your guys simply aren't cheap enough to field truly overwhelming numbers of them. They also, because of the S4/T4 standard, are basically unable to hurt tanks effectively, which tends to play out the same as little bugs,

Big critters suffer most from being overcosted- look at the poor, benighted Carnifex and Tyrannofex, both good examples of some pretty gross price bloat compared to the previous edition. Simply bolting more and more features onto a chassis, even when costed "appropriately," does not a good design make because you don't need all that stuff to fill your role. Grey Knights learn that one- just because it's a good price doesn't mean it's something you want to/can afford to buy. MCs need some kind of resistance/immunity to the autokill effects that are becoming common or, more appropriately, they need to get out of the "WS3 I1 A2 is fine for a 200pt model" mentality. Yes, monstrous creatures are supposed to be big, dumb, killing machines, but those just aren't viable stats the way the game is these days, not for anything that wants to get close to the enemy to do its job and certainly not for what is supposed to be one of the premier melee armies in the game. If you're making me pay a tax for high numbers, don't cut my legs out under me by using shoddy other numbers to render them ineffective. ("She gets two hundred miles to the gallon, my friend, by her tank only holds three thimbles full. Still, quite a bargain, eh?")

Hybrid armies suffer from... well, I'm sorry to say, but basically just Mr. Cruddace's inability to understand the mechanics of the game well. (And, to reiterate, I realize he is not solely responsible for the contents of the book, but it's his name on the cover, so I really can't help but aim all this at him. Mr. Cruddace, if you're by some strange chance reading this, feel free to mentally distribute the blame amongst the design/editing/whatever staff as only you know how to see fit, as we are unfortunately not privy to the details of who, exactly, did what.) The "big" and "small" parts of the book, barring the exception of the Tervigon's explicit rules, simply do not interact well. A squad of Hormagaunts adds very little synergy to a Trygon, and vice versa. If Games Workshop wants to push this kind of "mixed swarm" that is often portrayed in the fluff, there need to be mechanics that cause them to interact positively rather than negatively (as they do now). This can be done explicitly (such as by allowing smaller bugs to "shield" their larger companions somehow) or implicitly (by giving them both useful roles in an army they can complement each other with), but needs to be more of a conscious decision to implement such strategies in the book- as was done with some of the others- rather than a slavish devotion to what previous editions showed as the "correct" stats/options for a unit, with some tweaks slipped in around the edges.

Rip and Tear! Rip and Tear Your Guts!

Let's get back to melee. Specifically, let's talk a little bit about how melee is just not a viable strategy in 5E. Yes, that's right, there are some melee armies. Would you care to name them? Have they placed at the top of a lot of big events? No, they haven't. That's because melee is shit in this edition. With the prevalence of vehicles and the inequal comparisons of shooting and melee (sequential vs simultaneous), melee simply does not have a place as a singular/primary strategy the way melee does. Armies may contain melee elements, even contain major or significant melee elements (such as TH/SS, TWC, Paladins, etc), but those elements ALWAYS have at the very least shooting support- or, more commonly, act in support of the shooting elements of a list. Melee strategies cannot compete on their own.

Partly this is because of tanks. Tanks ruin melee in three main ways- they can easily block of its movement lanes, denying any ability of the melee army to affect it beyond certain hand-picked units that it is willing to sacrifice. Maneuvering can provide cover to vehicles, but it is much harder to completely block LOS than it is to block movement.

Tanks also make life for melee difficult by simply being very, very hard to hit in close combat. Yes, you might hit automatically or on a 4+ if you're lucky, but more likely the enemy general has rushed something in 7-12" and you are looking at getting an extremely limited number of hits, and with the innate resilience of AV (even just AV10, like most are on the rear) and the damage table, even dedicated combat units find themselves struggling to inflict anything more than 1-2 glancing hits on a fast-moving tank.

Finally, there is a fundamental difference in how the two phases are resolved; shooting is sequential, firing each of your units one at a time and then moving to another. If one meltagun doesn't kill that tank, you can decide to aim a Lascannon at it, and if that doesn't work you can try something else. Close combat, to contrast, is simultaneous, as you must declare all your charges chained together before knowing what any of them will result in. Especially with tanks and the randomness of the damage table, this is greatly hindering, as once you've committed you have no option to redirect some of your firepower elsewhere to use it more efficiently.

Tyranids in particular also suffer in the "melee on vehicles" arena because so many of their models are ill-equipped or totally incapable of hurting tanks. You might see images of Termagants swarming over a Rhino, firing into hatches and prying open vents, but the reality of the situation is that they're S3 and can never, ever, ever do a damn thing to it. They can't even hope to gum up its wheels with a Death or Glory attack; they have no grenades, no special weapons, nothing. Now, I'm not saying that everything should be S4 or S5 so they can punch tanks to death, but some kind of mechanic to allow the smaller guys some functionality against tanks would be a huge help, and really even the mid-sized ones wouldn't mind a hand, either. There should be some kind of disadvantage to driving waist-deep in Gaunts, both for fluff and army balance reasons.

Add It Up

What can we do to bring things in line with what we want? What can we do to make them feel more like a menacing alien horde and less like a collection of goofy models?

Enforce the hive mentality. Synapse is a great start on this, as are the Tyrant's and Tervigon's auras, but why stop there? Why not have Tyranids be the premiere "aura" army, handing out bonuses like candy on Halloween? Dawn of War takes some of this approach, with each of your Synapse creatures giving out a unique bonus to nearby units (or units of certain types.) We could also take a page from the Tyranid Prime and give them lots of ICs that grant a particular effect to squads they join- so, for example, perhaps the Hive Tyrant can give his squads Preferred Enemy, or Tyranid Warriors give Poison to their little buddies, or other, stranger effects. But what we want to enforce here is the "made for a purpose" concept (which the current book does a decent job with, I admit) along with a "every part is expendable" motif. Lost a squad? So what, just attach a HQ to a different squad and give them the ability to do a thing.

This actually leads right into my next point: Tyranids are disposable. The current book handles this fine, but I think it's important to highlight how they did it. This is why Tyranids do not get invulnerable saves or Eternal Warrior, because conceptually those are protective abilities, whereas the Hive Mind is not interested in protecting its creations except insomuch as that allows them to accomplish their job. And usually why spend more protecting one when you could have two instead, so the first one dying is irrelevant? This is one of the ways in which I think the current design philosophy is just fine, but the book (and other books in the game) need to take this into account when balancing abilities, because it's just not acceptable for things like Jaws of the World Wolf, Huskblade, and Warp Rift to be flattening whole swathes of the Tyranid army with no recourse for them to do anything about it. It's fine for an army to have weaknesses; those weaknesses should not be so prevalent and crippling that there are multiple auto-lose matchups and powers available from both old and new codices.

Speaking also about the issues of melee and shooting, Tyranid shooting needs to be more versatile. It's fine to want to differentiate it from other armies by being primarily short-ranged, or with minimal AP, or whatever, but lacking ANY options in those respects is simply crippling the book for no reason, especially when there are no melee options to fill the gaps. How do Tyranids deal with a fast skimmer army? You might think that it's by using Harpies, Gargoyles, etc, but as it turns out these creatures are actually quite worthless against such targets and, in fact, you simply don't have a way to deal with such a force. If the army is going to be melee-focused, give it options in melee other than "charge" and "charge more." Give it melee to handle ALL types of targets; give it lots of melee specialists, not just one or two mediocre ones. Give it options across all slots.

Vehicles are, in another sense, a strange point in the Tyranid codex. Alone amidst all the other armies in the game (especially now that Necrons are getting major rewrites), Tyranids lack access to ANY vehicles. That's an entire mechanic of the game that they simply don't get, and it's fine as a fluff-derived piece but they should get something else in return. T6 and 3+ saves on monstrous creatures simply do not cut it- a Missile penetrates a tank on way, way worse than the 2+ it wounds a MC on and tanks often come with free ways to get cover AND have the damage table to roll on. Having multiple wounds can be useful, but not when they are so comparatively fragile against vehicles, since you're being successfully hurt (wounded/penetrated) more often and taking similar numbers of successful shots to bring down (four wounds to kill an MC vs. average three penetrations to kill a tank.)

This also spills over into the issue of mobility- some of this was included in the current book through Mycetic Spores, special deployments, wings, etc, but lacking the mobility of other transport-based armies, Tyranids NEED these options. Snuffing them out (like the FAQ) or making them blatantly worse (like Spores) simply isn't kosher because Tyranids are an army that, more than any other, live and die by the ranges they are at.

Final Thoughts

Well, I warned you that would be a lot of words, and it was.

5th Edition has done a good job for learning to hammer out niches for each of the codices to sit in comfortably without overtly stepping on each other's toes and without unbalancing the game or gameplay, which I think is good. Tyranids, however, found their nook a little bit too dusty and ill-fit for me to really end up happy with where they are. Is the codex an abomination and worthless? No. Is this little rant of mine to vent my fury at their unusability? No, not at all; indeed, for casual players the book will be entirely viable, if a lot more cramped than the other books of this era of design. What I'm aiming for here is a goal for the next book and something for GW (by some miracle, or more likely the players) to think about with the codex and its descendants. It's not just enough to say "there are problems," we want to understand what those problems are, why they occurred and how they can be avoided in the future.

GW really needs to hammer out what it is that Tyranids are supposed to do in the overall environment of the game and what sort of role they are to play; they need to give them unique mechanics and units, because of all the armies in 40K, Tyranids are perhaps the most flexible in terms of "Well, the fluff says this and this and this." Yeah, well, guess what, Tyranids mutated, now it isn't like that anymore. They're an infinitely maellable meta-organism that lives by adapting, they need to take advantage of that.

Comments (132)

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Pink! also, a couple duplications of words here and there...

in terms of useful contribution to this discussion... umm... rather than having no 3+ saves or EW usr's running around to show how expendable tyranids are, what if something crazy like killing a model in a squad to provide a strength bonus on the attack on a vehicle? Your paragraph about the termagants all over the rhino, eventually breaking inside to kill the occupants inspired me. Id be scared of termagants throwing themselves under as well as over my vehicle to bring me to a halt...

to keep it on a conceptual level like you were writing from... right now 'weakness' is the indicator of 'expendability'. what if 'expendability' was used to indicate 'expendability'? what if tyranids simply shrugged off the fear of death, or your punches, to wreak havoc till they stop twitching? no army can currently sacrifice models from squads to boost abilities/attacks, and no MC or IC can take a wound to boost a round of assault in some way.
1 reply · active 708 weeks ago
Just had a thought on mid sized Tyranids. What if whenever they took an ID wound, they ignored it on a LD test? Fluffy as the HIve Mind keeps them moving, and should be enough to keep them rocking through most of the game.
Shit... this is a long post.

*begins....*
Heres a fun way for your Termagants to harm vehicles, keep a Venomthrope within 6". the unit now has defensive grenades which count as S4 when hitting vehicles. It makes no sense but still, laugh as your DE opponent shakes in fear when his Raiders fall apart on contact with poison gas mwahahaha.
2 replies · active 690 weeks ago
Nice post. Well-argued and without the vitriol that has spoiled some other rants of your's of late. I like that you attacked the issues thematically, rather than coping out with something simple like "X needs to be cheaper" or "our Elites slot is too crowded."

Put me down as also being a fan of shas'el mike's concept of being able to sacrifice models for tabletop gain. This is extremely appropriate to the fluff, where waves of cheap bugs are tossed at the enemy for no other purpose than just to use up ammunition or wear out the enemy's sword arm, and could make for a really interesting army concept to build around. And aside from Imperial Guard (who I'd still love to see call down artillery strikes on their own guys) it doesn't really mesh with the tactical approach of any of the other races out there, so it would give nids a unique approach they currently lack.
3 replies · active 708 weeks ago
I've always wondered why the really, really big gribblies just can't be given a Armor Value instead of an armor save...
2 replies · active 708 weeks ago
Thalenchar's avatar

Thalenchar · 708 weeks ago

I do not particularly like Tyranids; bug-aliens have never been my thing. But reading your post I think there is a definite niche for them on the tabletop and I hope that someone with influence thinks exactly along the same lines as you do when they decide to redo/improve the Tyranid codex. The game will be better for it. Well done and well written.
This was a good article. That said, you started from false premises and got wronger from there.

Take, for example, your statement that the smaller bugs can't hurt tanks. This is demonstrably false. Termagants and Gargoyles both have Fleshborers, basically Bolt Pistols, but S4 nonetheless. Termagants, Gargoyles, and Hormagaunts can all have Adrenal Glands for S4 on the charge, and Genestealers have Rending. They can very much hurt tanks, and even destroy them. Destroying tanks through glancing hits is a good thing, because it means that the tank does not explode and take bugs with it.

That's the point of Venom Cannons and Heavy Venom Cannons: they don't explode vehicles. That's an advantage, besides their range.

Take, for another example, your statement about No Retreat being a problem. That's both right and wrong. It's right that small bugs within Synapse are Fearless and suffer No Retreat if they're on the losing end of combat. It's wrong that small bugs outside of Synapse need to worry about No Retreat, and usually have nice high initiative for avoiding Sweeping Advance. Seeing that small bugs falling back into Synapse automatically regroup despite everything (including units within 6", being out of unit coherency, etc), you're using them wrong if they're getting mopped up by No Retreat.

Of course, everyone is on a Tervigon kick, so they have tunnel vision due to the combination of Termagants and Tervigons: Termagants pay for that free Poison, Furious Charge, and Fearless by being Fearless and close to the Tervigon.

Take the complaints about mid-sized creatures as yet another example of wrong. A Tyranid Warrior is about as resistant to bolters as a Terminator. The Terminator is more vulnerable to lucky shots from bolters, while the Warrior is more vulnerable to lucky shots from heavy weapons. Yet nobody complains about Terminators being vulnerable to high volume low-strength fire.

Basically the problem is that you, like most Tyranid players, want the codex to work well with however you feel like playing instead of adapting yourselfs and your strategy to the advantages that it offers.
66 replies · active 706 weeks ago
It's ironic. When I first came back to the game form 18 years in the wilderness, my Eldar got stomped by a fairly standard Tyranid army. A Tyrant, some Hive Guard, couple Venomthorpes, Doom of Malachai, couple Tervigons, and hordes of Gants. We had some rules issues (the Tyranid player is fairly new too, and had some rules misconceptions that I didn't know any better about either), but you're right, in a casual game the bugs can be devastating. I also had no idea how to build a list for 5th, so had a bunch of walking Eldar (who swiftly became lunch), and didn't have nearly enough tanks on the board.

While I think they'd still give me some trouble, and I've been mulling how to best take them on next time. I think this article pointing out their flaws has helped me come up with a whole battle plan for next time (run away and shoot them).

So thanks! I think you've filled in all the gaps for me.
Cruddace should be fired. He made his pet army a juggernaut and everything else he touches is crap plain and simple. I have a sort of morbid curiosity on what GW will let him ruin next.
Namety-name-thing: After all assaults have been resolved check for ~. If the number of tyranid models involved in any assault exceeds the number of enemy models then every engaged enemy model suffers an automatic wound (armor saves allowed) as the teeming horde presses in from all sides in a tide of twitching blades and dripping maws. Further any vehicle that ends an assault phase in btb with at least three tyranid models suffers an automatic glancing hit, gaining +1 to the penetration result for every three additional models.
1 reply · active 708 weeks ago
Since the background for Termagaunts made specific mention of their affinity with Tyranid Warriors, why not give them the option to purchase one as a Sergeant from the Warrior entry?

Or how about giving us back the ability to buy things like Enhanced Senses for our BS3 Monstrous Creatures? I know i'd pay 10-20 points to have my T-fex be able to actually hit shit once in a while? Or allow things like Hive Tyrants with Wings be able to join other units of Jump Infantry?

I dont think any of the above changes proposed are particularly overpowered or game breaking, but would definitely open up some more flexibility....

Oh, and for crying out loud, put some more Force Org manipulation in there, all the cool armies are doing it...
thornyroses's avatar

thornyroses · 708 weeks ago

Great article. I agree that they should realy put some thought into how an adaptable bio-weapon force would function and then transfer it to the tabletop. Starting from synapse granting abilities i think it could realy work, sort of like carrying a banner. You can fit all sorts of options in there, along with some force organisation manipulation..and that would be my main point. Please, for an army that can't even take any vehicles just give us some options other than footslog, hug cover and get shot..
thornyroses's avatar

thornyroses · 708 weeks ago

Oh , and another small point somewhat removed. Not to say giving an army a niche is making a 'specialist army' ala Eldar, but when picking a dynamic for a force they should just go the whole hog, e.g. giving sneaky DE access to infiltrate. It's not a game changer, but just feels appropriate dammit..
1 reply · active 708 weeks ago
Hmm... fluff and spawn capabilities... The fluff goes on about spawning pools where the planets bio-mass is rendered down to create tyranid nutrients and more creatures.
Forge world used to produce spore towers and gaunt nests (sadly, no longer it seems), an expansion on your idea would be that you'd buy these terrain pieces to put in your deployment area. depending on the type these would then spawn a random number of models each round. lots of gaunts, d2 monsterous creatures etc. some could also operate like the mycetic spore, deepstriking another spawn point on to the board. destruction of the spawning terrain halts it's birthing.

this would create an interesting dynamic within the army of forward assault and the need to protect your resources. for gw it makes the army kind of 1+1 in that you'd need players to buy spawning terrain plus their bug squads - more sales make gw smile.

for the momment quick fixes for the codex would be to bring back EW for synapse and make models like the venomthropre and pyrovore upgrades for troop units. this would embed them into squads and hide them from missiles etc. hive warriors could be upgrades for hq, tyranid warrior squads etc. lastly give hormagaunts rending verses vehicles or some similar ability. lastly, remove the glance only from the heavy venom cannon.

The tryanid codex was an appallingly written piece of garbage, not in terms of what it did to the tyranid army, but just in the way it was written. if you read the credits, there was no editor, it falls into all the traps that writers make when self editting ( was a games writer myself). Too often in the book were bits left out because he knew what he meant, he felt he didn't need to explain it. "Of course tyranids benefit from using two special close combat weapons why would i need to say they do? Oh 'cos the rules say they can't..." lets ont even go near the doom of malan'tai debacle.
Good article. Whether you do in fact just suck because you can't kill Mech armies with Gants (kidding) or not, you have a point about fluff informing the game, and this has been my biggest gripe with IG and GKs - neither book fits the fluff very well. The only difference is that they reject the fluff and go on to be amazing on the table. Nids reject the fluff and suck cheesy goat balls. I don't think any book has got it as "right" as DE has, with a perfect balance between tabletop power, adherence to fluff at the specific unit level, and adherence to the fluffy style of play at an army-wide level.
4 replies · active 708 weeks ago
I'd like to see a Warrior "type" squad leader option for swarmy squads. An MC sargent options for warrior/ ravener squads.

The fluff always has the swarms as a vanguard for the medium stuff, and the medium stuff as a vanguard for the big uns.
IG just suffers fluff-wise because its quite common for the "Veterans" to outnumber the regular rank-and-file guardsmen. But that's what happens when you offer choices that are just plainly better than alternatives.

GK's can be played somewhat close to the fluff (I think), but the best lists either end up spamming henchmen (and thus not being Grey Knights), or spamming Purifiers and having more of them on the tabletop than the book indicates even exists. Not to mention that they're an assinine concept to begin with--"We have a chapter of space marines that has never had anyone fall to chaos in its entire history; it is the most pure group of warriors in the Imperium--and then there's the guys that are More Pure than Pure, who bathe in the blood of their allies to be Ultra-Pure. And P.S. they're also the only chapter that doesn't want to be Ultramarines, because Draigo makes Guilliman look like a chump."
12 replies · active 708 weeks ago
likes this
The Tyranids will get a boost when vehicles get nerfed in 6th Ed.

I think there is very little chance that the current age of vehicle domination will continue into the new edition. I kind of hope I'm wrong and all the armies will be strengthened and balanced accordingly, but I'm kind of thinking it will not. I'm guessing they are gonna push infantry next time.
1 reply · active 708 weeks ago
Nicely said. I particularly like that you differentiated between insisting that Players build Armies to match the Fluff when the Rules follow it, and insisting the the Designers actually write Rules that match the fluff, so that the natural builds that follow from examining the Rules for an Army end up reflecting its Fluff.

I actually like the broad-spread WS3, but I think it needs equally broad-spread re-rolls and appropriate costing to achieve its goal: being yet another manifestation of the Hive Mind driving its creations toward inflicting damage over self-preservation.
2 replies · active 708 weeks ago
Great article, thanks!
Punchymango's avatar

Punchymango · 708 weeks ago

I think pushing the "expendable" aspect, and the "every Tyranid is purpose grown for its job" angle could be fun, and would make the army more unique.

Imagine if instead of rippers having their own codex entry (because seriously, nobody takes rippers), they were an upgrade for other broods; you could take one ripper base per X wounds (6? 10? it'd need to be fine tuned). When a Tyranid unit assaults through difficult terrain, the Tyranid player may remove one attached ripper base as a casualty in order to count as having assault grenades for that turn.

Or, let gaunts take an upgrade called Caustic Viscera or something, and allow the player to pull some as casualties to do damage to a tank they're in close combat with. I have this image of gaunts pushing through a hatch and then literally emptying their acidic guts into the tank.

I think this take on Tyranids would be fun, and would definitely give them a shtick, which they don't really have now.
2 replies · active 708 weeks ago
WhoNeedsAName's avatar

WhoNeedsAName · 708 weeks ago

I really like the idea of synapse auras that give different bonuses to your army or surrounding models.

One thing I think the book really needs if the ability for their basic guys to hurt tanks like every other 5th edition codex. Something like

For every X models in the unit you may upgrade one to an acid gant
During the shooting phase you may remove any number of acid gants from your unit to deal one S8 AP1 hit per acid gant removed to the rear armor of any tank within 6''.
If an acid gant is killed center the small blast over the spot it was killed, all models under the template take a S4 hit with no armor saves aloud.

Seems much more niddy than just giving them special guns like everyone else but still lets their basic guys threaten tanks.
Antebellum's avatar

Antebellum · 708 weeks ago

I thought it was a great article Puppy. As others have said, it wasn't a wish list of 'I want this' or 'I want that,' but a listing of concepts and themes that should be recreated to make Tyranids an acceptable army.
The fallacious reasons for choosing Dove usually come down to a misunderstanding of the parameters of the game. It's interesting that when we change the parameters, such as indefinitely iterating the game, then the parameters change to favour Dove as the pure strategy, and mixed strategies over the pure strategies of Dove and Hawk.

Mixing reliabilist and luckist strategies in Warhammer is pretty straightforward: Think of the option between a Twin-Linked Bolter and a Storm Bolter. Between 12"-24" the Storm Bolter is just as reliable and exploits both dice hitting much better. Between 1"-12" the Twin-Linked Bolter is more reliable. Multiple small units are one such mixed strategy, increasing the number of units, which both increases the number of shots to take advantage of good luck, and the number of dice rolled to take advantage of average rolls.
I thought the aura idea is terrific! big bugs could use rules similar to the old VDR rule of MASS points, to mitigate their softness.

Also have just started reading blogs again after being away 12 months, the love for the new codex seems to have waned. I recall posts on 3++ about how versatile and interesting the codex was and how much of an improvement it was from its predecessor. Now it seems with other new codecies and the meta game continue to sour our perspective of the Nids. I found the FAQ the most damaging thing, but I suppose we all bare scars.
3 replies · active 703 weeks ago
the Hive Mind's avatar

the Hive Mind · 703 weeks ago

it is rather strange when our big bad monstrous creatures would rather avoid other assault rocks( like paladins and TH/SS Terminators) and i i would much rather try to drown these untis in tervigon-backed Termagants. it just feels silly to have to play keep away with things like a trygon to keep them out of close combat at times. it just feels really bizarre. the only TMC i would throw into combat with a rock is a LW/BS hive tyrant with LW tyrant guard, and only as part of a multi-charge against other assault/rock units. they just don't feel that monstrous to me when they can't handle other armies heroes on their own....perhaps asking for our monsters to be able to go toe to toe with anything in melee is asking too much?
the problem has nothing to do with the tyranids in particular, or with cruddace. check the truly competitive armies-you'll see most of them have major trouble IF you decide to build lists around a fluffy theme. just TRY playing space wolves with "1 long fangs unit+2 grey hunters units+2 blood claws units" for more cc. try anything other than long fangs spam.

see, the thing is, the game designers have shown, through the white dwarf lists they design, that they dont quite understand the mechanics of their own game. talk to Cruddace, and ask him "what does saturation mean in 40k?" he will think you are speaking Chinese. fluffy and competitive playstyles are two COMPLETELY different animals in 40k-unlucky for us, the game designers clearly only care for the fluffy side. sure, some understand better than others, like Phil Kelly. but most of them dont quite understand competitive 40k and how it works.

as long as that doesnt change, problems will always arise.
The tyranid codex seem's to be fine. Not counting unusable units for me (like reveners or lictors). I have 25/5 Win/Lose score. Monstrous creatures seems to hold a lot of Wound Attampts. Trygons with Regen under FNP will resolve infantry or vehicles. Hive Guard will slowly resolve tank problem and Doom will resolve infantry problem. You just have to adapt yourself to Tyranids. The codex should not be adapted for you.
From reading the background material and novels featuring tyranids, there are two things i think would add to the fluff and playability of the army.
First: Have warriors function a bit like wolf guard in that you buy a squad and then split some off to lead your swarms. The warrior is an IC that can't leave the unit until it is dead, at which point he can join another swarm. (Maybe for balance the synapse only affects the unit the warrior is leading unless he's on his own or in a unit of warriors.) fluff-wise in most novels i've read featuring 'nids (esp' ciaphas cain series) warriors seem to appear singly amongst a swarm of smaller bugs rather than a single squad
Second: bugs in synapse range (or with a warrior) can choose to fail a leadership test rather than being fearless. This represents the hive mind probing the enemy defenses and deciding those resources would be better used elsewhere or a new tactic is needed
I agree with virtually everything in this post.

Although, I find that the 'everything is expendable' theme doesn't always work for me. I know that this is supposed to be the case, but when synapse is so vital (both in gameplay and fluff), then I'm dubious that Hive Tyrants, Primes and similar would be considered entirely expendable. Several battles in the fluff were won when the enemy took out a Hive Tyrant leading the army, implying that they are extremely important to the tyranid force, and not expendable at all (at least, not until the battle has been won). it just seems that there should be more mechanics that help synapse creatures (especially HQs) to survive.

I also (sadly) agree that, depsite being a melee army, many of our units just don't sut it in melee. Genestealers are good, but no grenades can easily cripple a squad during a key charge. Furthermore, we don't have much in the way of auto-activate combat tricks. For example, the Hive Tyrant often relies on paroxysm to take out other elite/deathstar units, but a psychic-defence, or even a failed psychic test can leave it highy vulnerable to return attacks. We certainly have nothing like the GK grenades (either the rad grenades, or the "I have a 1/3 chance of instantly winning this combat" grenades).

Even some of our melee stuff isn't all that impressive. The Prime is nice, but for one of the leaders of the tyranid swarm, I'd really expect more WS than the standard SM commander. Same with initiative - considering he has no invulnerable save, T5 will only get him so far. Furthermore, considering that neither he, nor warriors, have any particularly good guns (weee - more anti-infantry, we were running a bit short...) his good BS is all but meaningless.

In any case, I think you've made a lot of good points - particularly that GW (and certainly Cruddace) apparently have no idea what direction they'd like to take tyranids, and seemingly no desire to focus on one (orks are still the best horde army, and they've consistently given other races far better CC abilities). Still, we can only hope that GW will realise what they did wrong and give the job of writing the new codex (whenever they get one) to someone with more enthusiasm for the project.

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