Email in: Weird thunderbubble list

"Hi Kirby

Been reading your blog on and off for a couple of months now-interesting stuff, and I like the relatively relaxed feel to the site and contributors.

So I'm loving the Thunderbubble stuff, and I've been thinking about running a list based on the concept, but with some weirdness of my own.

1750 points

Glad you like the blog and Thunderbubble is a fun build combining the strengths of Mech SM and the awesomeness of TH/SS. The issue at 1750 becomes balancing your army and the number of Terminators. 10 is too many (but super scary) and 5 is too few to be effective.

1 Librarian, terminator armour, storm shield, Null Zone, Vortex of DOOOM!!! (140 pts)

8 TH/SS Terminators (320 pts) (5 seems too few and ten two many at 1750)
1 Dreadnought, twin linked autocannon x 2 (125 pts)
1 Dreadnought, twin linked autocannon x 1, plasma cannon x 1 (125
points) (why plasma? just a bit of variation really, I hate blood angels/any units with feel no pain/power armour, and i don't have plasma on the razorback turrets yet)

Email in: Starting Dark Eldar [1000]

"Oh mighty pink-one!
So I've been looking at starting dark eldar for a while now, and I wanted your opinion on a list before I commit to buying the models.

Archon; huskblade, soul trap, shadow field, grenade launcher, blast pistol
175
Incubi x5; In a raider with night shield
180
Warriors x5; Blaster, In raider
120
Warriors x5; Blaster, blast pistol sybarite, In raider
145
Warriors x5; Blaster, blast pistol sybarite, In raider
145
Ravager; flickerfield, lance x3
115
Ravager; flickerfield, lance x3
115

Email in: 40k BA lists

 
I'm going to continue with this new e-mail replying style; let me know what you guys prefer. Italics = e-mailer.

"Hello Kirby,

I have been reading the blog for a while and taking some of your tips into my armies, these tips have been helping me win and are greatly appreciated. I was hoping that you could give some advice on what would be the better option to take to a tournament that has only 2 objective mission out of 6.

Glad you're liking the blog and it's helping you. I dislike this tournament already though :P. What are the other missions? KP? VP? Table quarters? Something else?

CC List
Mephiston = 250
HG with chapter banner, melta bomb, 2x stormshields, 2 x LC = 220
Furioso dread = 125
Chaplain = 100
10 DC, 1 x Power Weapon = 215
DC Dread, talons = 125
DC Dread, talons = 125
5x Assault Marines 1 x Melta, sergeant with infernus pistol, melta bomb, rhino with EA = 195
3 x Stormravens with EA, twin linked lascannons and twin linked multi meltas = 645

Kirby's back

My Internet is back to working but my laptop is still on the fritz. Will hopefully have some more Dark Eldar reviews this week as I also try and get some games in to work into Centurion form (list is a secret for now...!). I did a bit of painting and modelling over the weekend and will hopefully have some pictures of a painted Tyranid Prime by tomorrow! Otherwise back to normal in a couple of hours when I get a post done and dusted!

Thanks to the guys who posted things over the weekend. Anything I missed in the wide world of online 40k :P?

Angry marines Email Response for Rawrtime

Rawrtime sent me an email with 3 Biker based lists for his Angry Marines army he is building and looking for feedback. Due to the fact my computer still hates me, I cannot quote the email directly so will summarise it and respond accordingly. The first list was Dual-Command Squad typical froggage style biker list as seen over on ytth when the marine codex was first released, Second was single command with a Librarian for psychic protection and null zone use, and the third was dual command packing plasmaguns. It should be noted that all the lists were strong lists, and whilst I do not play full biker marines, played well they can do quite alot of damage, so the list response below is based on things I've read, witnessed and had told to me. Out of all the lists sent to me by rawrtime, the Librarian List is the one I think has the most potential. It was:

Blood Angel Ideas - Because overtiredness makes me think.

I realiseI promised more deployment articles, and I've had some people begging for castling advice, but fact is I'm working on a plant shutdown at the moment, and don't have the mental capacity for articles of that nature. So to fill space instead while pink bits is gone ....

Okay, so chatbawks inspired madness. Been thinking a lot of how to use Stormravens, since I came back from Brisvegas on Tuesday. I really like the model, but its hard to justify them at 1750. Kirbs gonna do a full article, so I'll save my full thoughts for that, but I'm going to focus on one thing in this list.

The Raven is a gunboat first, and a transport second.
No, really, I mean that. Its amazing. 4 Str8 AP1 Missiles on a first turn barrage? Yes please. Oh, they are single shot, well boohoo, thats okay with me. The very realistic chance to not only disable, but destroy, one of your AV13 or lower vehicles first turn, is worth it. Thats not taking into account its other weapons, which are also handy (Plasma Cannon/MM combo, with Hurricane Bolters, is my choice.)

Riddle me this, Clyde-frog - What makes Railheads so goddamned scary? Its the firepower they bring, and the cover save they always have! Frustrating, no? So that gave me an idea.

Fail Mail Part Deux: Ronald's Revenge!

Hey all! Roland here back with another (delayed) installment of "Fail Mail". Our hero and favorite, lovable, failure at life Ronald has returned with more awesome stories! Only this time (as you will soon see) it seems he's been doing his research, as the game detailed below demonstrates a much improved sense of play. So without further ado, his email will be in italics, and my awesome commentary in GREEN...the color of WIN.

Hey Kirby, Roland, and the rest of the 3++ Crew! I appreciate all the feedback and response from my first email BatRep I sent you and figured I'd give you all an update on how things have been going and ask for any input you may have for my most recent game. Granted it was a Vassal game, but I haven't had a chance to hit up my FLGS recently and have been getting my 40K fix online. So without further ado, Game 1: 2000pts vs. 3++ Jumpy BA, Pitched Battle, Capture & Contol

I'm going to use his BatRep to highlight some of the discussions and posts we've had here on 3++ in the past week, specifically SneakyDan's article linked here

Before I get into the analysis, here are the photos from the game. Mind you this was a FAST game against one of Ronald's good friends and fellow competitive player. We're going to use this game to reinforce some of Sneaky's points from his article and highlight some new ones.

Centurion Update

Hi Aussies!

Just a friendly reminder about Centurion. We have had to drop the numbers from 64 to 42 due to a change in venue (from one room in the building to another) which means that space suddenly became a problem.

Anyway, the point of this is 3-fold:

1. Lists and Payments are due by the 31st... that's like 3 days away. If I haven't heard from you by then I assume you will not be coming and will re-allocate your spot. Payment on the day is not an option. I need numbers to order dice, food and prizes, none of which can be done on the day as our nearest GW Store is only 760km away (~500 miles)!
2. The Forgeworld prizes are ordered, shipped, and cleared customs today! Awesomesauce!
3. Finally, Hope to see you all there!

We have about 6 spots left (barring drop outs) so looking forward to Queensland's first W/L No comp event.

Computer and Internet failure

My laptop just fried (I think it's the hard drive) so no wi-fi for me and some moron cut through the telephone lines yesterday morning which means I have no access to the Internet for a while. I'll try and schedule a few posts now but if it goes quiet for a few days try not to worry too much :P.

Email in: Blood Angels Advice [Some 40k questions]

I'm going to do this email a bit differently as there are a lot of questions. I shall answer them as I go along. Italics = emailer.

"Hi Kirby, I’m a big fan of your blog as most of the articles there are thought out enough to learn something from ;)

I have a lot of questions to run by you and any answers are greatly appreciated. Most of the lists posted as well as the tweaks you provide seem to follow certain rules but those rules are never quite clear. I was hoping you could expand on them.

Most lists post their model count, is there a goal to get X infantry and Y vehicles? If so what are those numbers or is it a ratio that is desired? There is also some desire to bring N str 8+ weapons as well a M str 7+ higher rate of fire weapons (like autocannons). I recognize the need to bring vehicle breakers as well as suppressive fire weapons, but how do you decide how many is enough? Or more accurately, what makes you decide you don’t have enough?

Email in: How to Make the Trains Run on Time

Hey, Kirby and everyone!
I really, really love IA9, and especially love the Tyrant's Legion list. So much so, that when a player asked me if it was any good, I instantly had to stop and think- well, is it? I love the feel, I love the fluff, I've won games, I've lost games, but...
I'm really biased. My problem is I'm simply too biased in my liking of the Tyrant's Legion; I just can't think objectively when my mind fantasizes about Retributors with their cheap meltabombs, 40-man squads with four flamers at 150 points that grant 3+ saves, access to the vanilla marines Heavy Support, autocannons on chimeras, the potential for dev squads in chimeras, Arvus lighters with guns strapped to them, and even the Sergeant-with-an-extra-wound ultra-cheap HQ choice.
Is the army any good, would you say? Am I just too enthused by all my cannon fodder? What are the best units in the book?
Sorry if this is a lot to ask, especially about a Forge World army and one for whom you may not even have read the rules... but I'm really curious: am I blinded by beauty, or is there substance within all that style?
- sofacoin

Guest Article: Edenbreaker - Musings of Eldar in 5th edtion

Here we do have an article from Dave over at Crew Shaken not Stirred (he makes good cocktails). He wrote this recently on his blog and he sent it to me as a guest article on fester's recommendation. How exciting. He also asked for my comments and what better way to do this than post the article on 3++ and intersperse my comments within the article; snowmobile lite we shall call it. Let us begin... (my comments are in blue btw).


The concept behind "Edenbreaker" really is the cumulation, in my mind, of where the Eldar game has been going since late 4th Ed into what we can safely say is over halfway into the lifetime of 5th Ed. Eldar have evolved from a hybrid foot/mech army into a forced full mech state. The exception to this is of course Footdar, an interesting concept but one that is usually played poorly but by those who have a real solid understanding of the synergy used in such a force. -like all Eldar armies, it should be wielded like a scalpel as opposed to a sledgehammer- Eldar do not have a hammer or an anvil type unit which hurts when we play Marines or MEQs. We do not have a reliable gunline/mech gunline like Guard.


The internet has shown us over the years on sites such as YTTH, 3++ is the new black and Fritz 40k, that playing Eldar is to go for the harder option than many. It's far from a bad army, but its not balanced like the majority of 5th edition codexes. As we have seen from tournaments, battle reports, tacticas and even from a shift in GW rules, we must take advantage of 3 relatively well known factors;

Email in: Blood Legion: count-as BA

"Back in 4th ed, when I finally got my Chaos army painted, I ran Khorne-themed Black Legion, calling them the 8th company. Compared to 5th edition codices, it feels like my Chaos army just doesn't have much of a chance, despite buying new units to try to "get with the times."

With the BA codex, I feel like I have a good opportunity to represent a Khorne-flavored army again. Astorath represents the head of the 8th company, and chooses Chaos Space Marines who have particular fervor and martial pride to undergo psycho-lobotomy and become Berzerkers, who are represented by Death Company. Assault marines represent Chaos Space Marines with jump packs. Sanguinary Priests are represented by khornate icon-bearers.

I felt like this could have been e-mailed to Fester as well, but I feel that you give better tactical and list-building advice, and what I want is a sounding-board.

Here's the list:

Email in: 2500 point Blood Angels Mech List

"Hello, I know you get lots of request for list help, but could you take a look at this list. It is a 2500 point list for Blood Angels. I mostly play against various Marines, Crons, IG, and rarely Nids/Tau. I also see Ravenwing and Deathwing armies. Most people around here play foot heavy or Drop Pod marines so I don't see much armor, but I want to build a "take all comers" list anyway. I tend to play Highly Mechanized lists and I wanted to include some DoA support units, but don't know how effective that would be. Here is the list.

HQ Mephiston 250
HQ Libby- Rage and (strength 10 power) 100
2xHQ Honor Guard(5)- Jump Packs, 3x MG, 1x Fist 440
3xTR Assault Sq(5)- MG, PWN w/ Razorback-TWL ASS-C 540
EL Sanguinary Guard(5)- 1xFist, Banner, 260
1x Infernus, 1x Plasma Pistol
3x FA Baal Pred- Extra Armor, Heavy Bolter Sponsons 510
TWL Assault Cannon, Storm Bolter
3X HS Predator- Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons 390

Email in: Inquisition Army List

"I'm making a 1750 point list.

Grand Master with Master Crafted Nemesis Force Weapon and a Targetter: 161
With 4 Terminators: 184
(Gives my army much need boost in close combat and allows me to deal with things that are eternal warrior)
Canoness with Eviscerator, Book, Cloak, jump, inferno: 115
(Your Basic Canoness, will stay with the Seraphims until they get close to the enemy where they will split apart).

Elites:
Inquisitor with bolter, Targetter and bolt pistol and 2 mystics: 35
(Anti Deepstrike, will stay near the Exorcist so they can pre-measure)
With a Land Raider: 250
(Grey Knights will enter it in the first turn, will also be used to take out heavy tanks)

Fast Attack:
4 Seraphims with 2 hand flamers and a superior with an Eviscerator: 159
(meant to deal with Hordes and possible tanks due to the Eviscerator)

Back-to-basics: Close-combat anti-tank

 
I talk a lot about suppression fire. A lot. However, I rarely talk about what it goes hand in hand with which is anti-tank through close combat and one of my armies which I use operates off this assumption quite heavily. This do be Tyranids. Quickly, suppression fire is all about causing damage on your opponent's vehicles and not necessarily killing them. While through simple attrition of roles suppression fire can often be quite effective anti-tank against low AV tanks, suppression fire generally uses medium strength guns, high rate of fire and reliable hitting (i.e. Rifleman Dreadnought) to overcome a vehicle's armor value and potential cover. This will generally stop tanks shooting and quite often stop them moving. This is great for stopping incoming firepower against gunboats, battletanks or transports with guns whilst also stopping movement in general (a big part of mechanised lists). This second aspect of suppression fire however is also important for close combat anti-tank. Let's take a look at why this is so important.

Close combat as anti-tank isn't very reliable. Before we even get into needing to hit a tank the close combat unit has to get across the field. Some units like Terminators in Land Raiders, Seer Councils on Bikes, Bike units in general, beasts, etc. are quite capable of this but are needing at least two turns if not more to actually get to grip with an opponent's main army. Some armies in fact can delay that engagement to the 5th or even 6th turn with other tactics such as blocking and bubble-wrap. What this means is close combat units which are capable of damaging tanks in combat not only need to get across the board but fight their way through screening infantry units. This takes time and therefore relying on this can severely hamper your army against vehicles. Furthermore, once you get into combat a simple 6" move means your units are hitting on a 4+ whilst anything more than 6" and the unit is now hitting on 6's. Ouch. This doesn't seem very in the favor of close combat units for actually taking down tanks does it?

Email in: Mech BT List

Kirby's kindly passed a list my way to comment. I hope its author doesn't mind...

I'm trying to build good mech BT-list for a friend with your mech SM as a basis. The strengths of doing this with BT as I see it are: Dreadnoughts with tankhunters and assault cannons so that they can be CC/infantry threats as well as suppression, though short ranged, many and cheap heavy/special weapons and cheap typhoons.

List 1 is maybe a bit light on anti inf (since the typhoons are quite vulnerable) and scoring troops. It does however put out a lot of high strength firepower. I'm thinkg about downgrading the Venerable to buy more troops, or changing the plasma guns to flamers. The tri-las predators may be a bit static and lacking duality as well but the other options in heavy support are not very good. ( There has to be better anti inf than dakka predators for 110 pts). You could take R-backs but the BT ones seems so expensive and you wont make much use of your cheap heavy/special weapons so they do not seem worth it. What do you think about the synergy of the army? does it miss something critical from your marine list? I have never played marines, just against them with tau and eldar, so your input would be most welcome.

Cancon report - 11th out of 107 players

BBQ is still going on so here's a report from Jason. Check it out.

Heyhey! Just got back from Cancon.

I took my guard afterall, though I made it fairly comp friendly. Scores below, then list + general gaming report. Sorry if it is too long, people can read what they are interested in.

Overall I came 11th/107 places.

I won 5 games, drew 1 game, lost 2 games (games were generally a good mix of majors and minors, the losses both being minor).

Scored 36/64 for comp, with 40/64 being the highest at the tournament I believe (and ranging generally from 20-40 total).

Got 44/48 for painting, which was great for me - I've never done anywhere near this well with painting before.

---

Army list;

Ordos Malleus Inquisitor Lord
- CCW/BP, PHood, Holocaust, Tarot
- Retinue 2x acolyte, power armour, bp/ccw, 1 with frag/1 with krak, 1x mystic (not 2, for comp and lols - almost killed a raider with 3x bolt pistols!!)

Email in: 2k Dark Eldar list

"Im an old school dark eldar player and I love the new codex and have been winning with it cinsistantly. (except when I get cocky with the 5++ on my raiders) Ive playtested this list alot and it has changed alot since my first incarnation of it. I was told about your site a few weeks ago and I love it when you critique an army list so I thought I would send you mine and see what you think of it. Myabe help me out pounding the edges flat so to speak.

HQ Lelith
T 10 warriors 1x blaster
Raider w/ night shield/ flicker field/ splinter racks
T 10 warriors 1x blaster
Raider w/ night shield/ flicker field/ splinter racks
T 10 warriors 1x blaster
Raider w/ night shield/ flicker field/ splinter racks
T 10 warriors
Raider w/ night shield/ flicker field/ splinter racks

Australia Day & Blog Question

It's Australia Day (for some reason Australian's celebrate not being independent from England but separate; how nice. I want Earth day where Earth celebrates its union with that yellow star we call our sun). This is a great excuse for a BBQ which means I'll be busy today. Maybe those guest authors will post stuff but who knows =P.

Anyway another quick potential blog update. I've gotten rid of pretty much everything no one wants and think the general layout is quite good for now, particularly since one can see the most recent post without scrolling. Go me. One suggestion was brought up relating to the column placement however. Personally I like it on the left and think two columns would look too cramped and on the right would look funny but I think that's because I'm used to having it on the left. So over on the trial blog I've moved the column to the right: check it out.

Which do you prefer? And any more suggestions, etc.? Still working on pricing for 3++ merchandise. Not sure if I'll setup an actual store but will see if the painters are up for commissions and will probably do maybe quarterly 'orders' where I create a page for a bunch of people to order stuff and am able to therefore bulk buy without having a bunch of stock hanging around. Thoughts on this? First port of call would obviously be dice (500+ and I can get them as cheap as 42c + S&H) and perhaps t-shirts? Tape measures are also an option as are dice bags, could try and work something out for carry cases (or just stickers to put on your carry cases?) and that's all I've looked at so far.

P.S. Wayland is having a sale currently and you can get an extra 6% off their prices for any orders 50 pounds or greater. Type WAYTOGO in the discount code box during checkout and boom, 6% off.

A New Breed: Lictors

Begin transcript of interview with subject 24601
"Shoot, man, I don't belong in here, you know? I ain't done nothin'. Now, my man Ripper over there- THAT muthaf***** got his ass in here for real. Stabbed about thirty Guardsmen to death and cost about five hundred points doing it, you know? Second offense, too, back before they laid the new rules down he was every bit as bad, so you know he's in for life."

...

"What? No, he ain't the only one. Big V over there set a buncha guys on fire I hear; I believe it, too, dude creeps me out with his... well, shit, I just wish he'd wear some pants, you know? But problem was he didn't set enough folks on fire, so they tossed his ass in here. Guys like that, there's no savin' 'em, they're already resigned to it. But me, I'm different; I got hit with a bad rap this edition."

...

"That ain't fair, man, you know the deck was stacked against me before. I'm reformed now, though- took some programs to help deal with my antisocial behavior, cut back on my spending so I can get by with fewer points, even been workin' out in the gym here when I can so I got some real heavy-duty stats backing me up. Plus I've been all over the work-training programs here, gettin' some special abilities so the moment I'm out I got a whole host of options. Assuming anyone's gonna overlook my past, of course, which ain't real likely at this point I guess."

...

"Hey, I ain't so different from all you fancy-ass folks what've always done good. You think I ain't got three wounds to my name and a three-up save? Betcher ass I do. Think I don't pen on fives, wound on twos? Three editions running now, man. They make me a free man and I can get anywhere I'm needed, do any job you want- you just gotta ask me and not some hotshot newcomer that everyone's creamin' their pants over 'cause he's got some two-shot piece for bustin' rides. Shit, son, I got that and when I pull chrome, it's execution style, you get me? Tougher, longer, doin' it all and still I get no respect and you wonder why I'm pissed off? I'll f****** tell you why I'm pissed off: I get no play, no matter what. Ain't nothin' I do that's good enough for folks, it's always gotta be somethin' more."

...

"F*** you, man, I spent eight years in here, I wanna see you get a running start after doin' the same. You let me catch my breath and I will tear some punk-ass b****** up, you hear? Yeah, you go ahead and write that down, see if I give a shit. I'mma get out of this hole and make a name for myself, just you watch."

End transcription.

Discussion: Eldar Jetbikes; viable scoring?

So we have another discussion post prompted by another e-mail. This time it's about Eldar and running units of Jetbikes as scoring. Let's take a look at the e-mail:

"Hey there Kirby, i have another matter on which i'd like your oppinion. I've been using my mechdar for quite a while now (the non-council, non-eldrad type), pretty much exactly the same as your list. It works brilliantly, except of course against guard, but that's just something we eldar players must accept (unless when running a council). However, i've recently decided on trying out a variation. Specifically, a variation for a tournament which allows special characters (very rare around here) and thus i'd like to take Eldrad. Not only that, but i've found that 3 DAVU squads (including the falcon) just doesn't do it for me. I've been running the following:

How to Run a Platoon

I've seen a lot of people trying to run platoons, and I gotta say, I'm not really impressed. There seems to be a lot of this going around:

Platoon Command Squad + 4 Meltaguns + Chimera
10 man squad + autocannon
10 man squad + autocannon
Commisar + Power Weapon

Let me be clear here: this is not good. A 21-man guard squad is not going to be the bubble wrap you need to stop enemies from getting to you, the PCS does the job worse than vets and are much less survivable to boot, and you have hardly any offensive power in the squad itself! If you're looking to block, investing in vets is a better option and gets you more killing power. (The squad above is worth 2 meltavets and change.)

So what is another way to build a platoon? These kind of squads are "cheap", but not really good for their points. We don't want to try and use them to spam chimeras, because vets do a much better job of it. (Since they can pack 3 special weapons per squad, and have the awesome BS4.) So, what does the platoon excel at?

Now, I don't want to give the wrong impression: the platoon is actually a pretty powerful choice if used correctly. The trick is in maximizing all your options. So let's take a look, and we can figure out what the best (or at least a very good) way to run a platoon is.

Guest Article: Points Adjusted Army Selection System

Some of you may have heard of this. Some not. You've all hopefully heard of Swedish comp and the series of articles we've done looking at them. PAAS is very similar in attempting to make sweeping changes to 40k for 'balance' and IIRC is Dutch Danish. Davis has kindly written an article on it to give us a better idea of what this comp system does.

The Points Adjusted Army System is a prime example of the flaws of comp. Now, the reasons comp in general is bad have been done to death both here and elsewhere, so I won't be getting into that here-- to summarize, comp tournaments don't actually level the playing field, they just make it so that different selections become the new "power choices." This system is the epitome of this-- I'll be going through their post isolating a few particularly significant error.

Analysis: Ironclads

Here's an email from Jason to start off a discussion:

"Hey Kirby,

Time and time again in the city store I see people taking an ironclad and dropping it into melta range. They sometimes kill something; but it is never, ever worth their while in the end.

Surely a better use for an armour 13 combat monster would be mid-table/flank drop, away from meltas, and firing your twin missiles into the side of armour?

Following this, they can try to saturate you with firepower, but armour 13 and extra armour really keeps you going towards the enemy, and it means they aren't shooting your transports (which is really what they should be doing, so translate that you probably ignore the dread?)

You have smoke for the following turn, and you can probably make it into combat; giving you a better chance to kill whatever than that single shot melta, and the missiles having a decent chance as well.

You've also had the benefit of forcing your opponent to think 'where is he going to drop that melta gun and how can i kill it?'

Just thoughts.

Jason"

Stormraven Spotted!

Here are some pictures from SneakyDan who is being sneaky and sending me photos (nothing lewd...). We have some close-up shots of the Stormraven! and confirmation of Grey Knight usability (if you didn't know already...). Check the pics out and Dan's thoughts...

"After my initial hatred, I friggin love this thing up close. It's front heavy, but it's got that "GRAVITY DOESN'T APPLY TO SPEHSS MAHREENS" look to it. Confirmed for grey knights as well, saw the door icon kits"

Email in: My Tau army list...

 
"Greetings from Sydney Kirby,

I hear you live in Melbourne. Don’t worry… nobody’s perfect. I jest, I’ve only recently stumbled across your website, but it looks like a fantastic fan-driven resource. Kudos.

Anyway, I was hoping you could spare a few minutes to give me some feedback on my Tau army. I’ve been into the hobby side of things for a very long time now, and finally decided to give gaming a try, so I’m completely new to that aspect of Warhammer 40,000.

I’m a little out of my depth. I want to field a competitive army, but one that deviates slightly from the cookie-cutter builds that seem to be the norm. I’ve been told that 1,500 point games are by far the most prevalent, so that’s what I’ve focused on, and my list is as follows:

3++ Merchandise

So this past weekend has been pretty quiet on the actual 40k content, sorry guys. You got a nice bit of info on Friday though to chew through with the Dark Eldar review on special characters and that will continue this week. BroLo was also kind enough to drop a BT post for us in a Templar styled Thunderbubble. We'll get back to usual this week and include some actual updating of the old pages and backlinking of the past month and you learned about the 'Pink Gambit (lol)' in writing for BoLS in an attempt to bridge the perceived gap between competitive and hobby play.

Before we get to more in-depth 40k again (and emails) the poll has finished on whether or not 3++ should have merchandise. The result wasn't resounding (30% for, 50% don't care and 20% against). I know some people are hyper-excited about the possibilities (pringles and VT2 for example) so let's get some more information here. What do you want to see or not see (no condoms pringles)? How would you like it to be done? Do you want commissions from Vince/Rupey/Koopa (I know vince is up for this, no idea about the others =D) such as pink models, etc? Does anyone know any good programs/companies/etc in which to do this, etc.

Anyway sounding ground to get more information after the poll so have at it; this doesn't mean it will happen yet either, just doing my research =D.

A traitor emerges...

Kirby's going to write for someone else a very irregular basis! You wish to know whom right?

Guess what, you can't! Well I'll tell you in a second (*pauses as a bunch of people scroll down*) but for now we'll look at the logic before we get to the answer... I'm sure a lot of you have heard me talking about being a competitive gamer of the system(s) we enjoy whilst also getting great enjoyment out of the hobby aspect. I like to call myself a...(imagine a loud, echoing voice)

Competitive Hobbyist

And rather than using good old English to make that sound like I hobby competitively (i.e. paint and model) we're going to add a little colloquialism to it. I enjoy playing 40k competitively. I also enjoy painting, assembling, converting, writing up stories/fluff and generally engaging with my models. These two aspects of the system we enjoy are not mutually exclusive. Notice how I've used the word system rather than game or hobby. Both of those words have connotations attached to them in how 40k is viewed and it's a bit of a chicken and egg thing in which came first. Games Workshop has obviously flourished as an excellent hobby company producing many excellent plastic kits and running that part of their business very well (get over the prices people; they are expensive). Was this the way the company founders saw their company going or was it more of a gaming company which produced great models? I don't really know and frankly I don't care (sorry guys).

fester's Battlewagon, and it's finished!

So for those of you who don't lurk on the Chatbawks waiting for me to post updates on my WIP wagon, and for those of you who aren't followers on my own personal blog (and with my total of 27 followers I know that's most of you!), you wouldn't have seen an update on where I am at with this little guy.

Let's take you back for a review of where I started, if you are so inclined.

Well during the intervening 2 weeks, I have put some paint on this fella and made a right mess of it.

OK, I lie, I've done a damn good job of it (for my own personal quality, anyway).

Email in: Dark Eldar list email in

"Hey Kirby, I was wondering if you could take a look at a recently made Dark Eldar list. This army list is one modified after your list in the Dark eldar duke sliscus + webway post.

Duke - 150

Kabalite Warriors x 5 - 45
Blaster - 15
Sybarite - w/ blast pistol and power weapon - 35
Raider w/ ff - 70
Total - 165 x 3 - 495

Warriors x 20 w/ darklance (2)
Total - 230

Charity for Queensland floods

As some of you know Queensland has been flooded (and NSW, Western Australia, Victoria and some parts of the Northern Territory). Basically lots of water everywhere. fester has already said Centurion is still going on but there is a massive clean-up going on in Queensland currently. It's our turn to help! Dave Taylor has heard from the Deepstrike Podcast they are running a flood appeal to auction off a Space Marine army early in February to help out those they know who have been affected by the rising waters.

Gramps sent me this link and I thought it appropriate to post up and spread the word. Props once again to Dave Taylor and the Deepstrike team for putting themselves out there to help other people.

Hive Tyrant or Tyranid Prime: Is it really that simple?

One of the major complaints I've heard about the new Tyranid codex (we're back to this yes :P) is based around the Hive Tyrant and it's new counterpart, the Tyranid Prime. Many have advocated the use of the Tyranid Prime in nearly all situations compared to the Hive Tyrant with only the Swarmlord or Flyrants with Hive Commander being 'worth' it in terms of using the Hive Tyrant. This would make absolute sense if the Hive Tyrant was simply a combat beastie. In that regard the Tyranid Prime is almost as good for half the price. Whilst Hive Tyrants are obviously scary in close combat this is not why you take them to lead your swarm. Let's look at why.

The Tyranid Prime is a measly 80 points base and after some general purpose upgrades like Lash Whips, Bonesword, Regeneration and Toxin Sacs you're sitting at 115 points of pure combat awesome. In terms of point efficiency the Tyranid Prime is amazingly good for what it does. It improves any Warrior squads it joins and being an IC, can flit in and out of Tyranid units (something which the Tyranid codex lacks) including Carnifex broods. With regeneration you can easily chuck a wound on this guy early and hope for that lucky 6 but it makes other units more survivable and often easier to get cover (i.e. Carnifex Broods). However, this is all it really provides to the army. Whilst synapse is obviously important, the Tyranid Prime is first and foremost a combat character and will excel at this role.

3++ Facelift

I'm sure a lot of have you have noticed I've updated 3++ extensively and (hopefully) made the site easier on the eyes. I still have a lot of updating to do in regards to backlinks and making the pages pretty but the basic model I think is better. There are still some things I need to update (external links aren't opening a new page atm so I need to find out where the code for that has gone...) but the load times have been cut down drastically and the site generally looks better (I think...) whilst still having that 3++ feel from before. The banner and blog should now always be the same width and for anyone with a resolution in the 1200s for width should be fine and not need any side scrolling. I think most people have their blog set at that or higher and for the widescreeners like me with 1900+, you're not looking at a tiny portion of the screen with bunchs of white space out to the left and right.

Anyway, any bugs, changes, dislikes/likes, etc. let me know! amazingPhil is still working on a further updated site but that is for a non-blogspot hosted site I believe. Comment away please! I won't have much time to do anything tomorrow I believe as I will be doing the good old Australian (and world) past-time of drinking but should be able to get in some healthy work on the site on Monday.

P.S. sorry for moving the chatbawks for several hours. I know you all hated me during that time period =D.

Can BT do a thunderbubble??

Here is the next list in a series of refreshed Templar lists here on 3++. Kirby has written a hybrid list, which I'll look at a bit later and I attempted a foot list too. I want to try to explore tried and tested concepts with the newly refreshed codex and see how we can compete. Today I would like to have a think about the concept of Kirby's Thunderbubble.

Kirby's 1750 list is almost a mech saturation list with some added terminators to block and tackle any burly units that may come your way. The dreads and preds throw out a good amount of firepower, supported by the Las/Plas razors. Trying to make a like-for-like list would be impossible as BT do not have access to dakka dreads or cheap razors. They do have so other options though... maybe even better??? We shall see.

What options do we have? Cheap as chips Land speeder typhoons will hopefully take the place of the dakka dreads. AutoLas preds (with a cheeky tricksiness) are a similar cost so are in and we'll have to make use of dreads too. The big differences come in the troops section really. The EC is a pain as he doesn't offer us psychic defence, but he does give the bubble more bite and the rest of the soft-stuff that little bit better. He's not a librarian, but he's different and can join the bubble for Ld10, crusader seals and more punch.

Email in: 1850 Stormraven List

"Kirby (or whomever you hand this off to),

With the Stormraven release seemingly imminent, I thought I'd take a crack at putting together a list that utilized the other role of the Raven. Gunship.

The goals of the list are straightforward: Two Stormravens minimum. Scoring Troops in all vehicles. Land Speeders to provide cover saves for the Ravens as needed.

2X - Librarian Shield, Might
2X - Sanguinary Priest
4X - Assault Squad, Meltagun, (Sgt.) Infernus Pistol, Razorback w/ TLAC
2X - Scout Squad, (Sgt.) Melta Bombs
2X - Landspeeder Squadron, 2 Landsppeders w/MultiMelta
2X - Stormraven Gunship, EA, TLMM, TLPC

1850 pts.

The Scouts embark in the Ravens and can be carried to make the Raven scoring, or they can be dropped off via Skies in order to secure an objective late in the game but allow the Raven to stay mobile. The Librarians can deploy rather flexibly, either in any transport to provide Shield, or in the Ravens to make the Scouts more useful in CC. Priests are also flexible, but more desirable in the Scout squads, I think.

Chatbawks

Chatbawks is back up and running on the main page and a seperate 3++ page which is bigger and easier to access whilst remaining on the 3++ site. Working on the site layout some more today; on my widescreen the new banner looks pretty meh as it only takes up about half of the screen. I might take the site off percentages but then it won't work too well on smaller screens.

Anyone with any experience in this matter or web-design would be great so we can make 3++ prettier ^^.

Herohammer In Summary: Key Army Design Concepts

In a Herohammer mindset, you are trying to build in all of the key concepts which we as gamers here on 3++ as well as on associate blogs profess as being the strong building blocks of a good player. Things such as army-wide redundancy, target saturation, blocking, suppression, resilience, and mobility to name just a few. The only issue is, you can't, not all of them anyways and those that you do are on a compacted scale. Herohammer is like taking everything that we here at 3++ is the New Black take as gospel in terms of a Competitively Balanced Army and throwing it out the window because no matter how much you try, you simply can't do it all. Instead you have to prioritise a few key concepts and work with them.

For me with the Space Wolf list it was i) Resilience, ii) The Ability to Take on All Comers for Each Model, iii) Emphasising Combat Superiority, iv) Mobility Without Armour, and v) The Cool Factor.
i) Resilience - you have to be able to survive everything thrown at you and keep on marching, luck may be needed, but the ability and the possibility is essential to the army. This is in essence invulnerable saves to as many models as possible. You don't have a commanding prescence on the board, your army is not a target saturated force, with 10 models at 1750pts against any of my standard lists where I am suppressing upwards of 12-16 targets on my opening salvo, each of those targets becomes one or even half of one of the 'Heroes', and so you need to be able to survive anything thrown your way.

Dark Eldar Codex Review: Part 4: Special Characters (Part 2)

Here's the second part of the Dark Eldar Special Character review. We checked out Vect, Lady Malys, Kheradruakh and Drahzar last time around. We'll look at Lelith, Urien, Baron and Duke this time around and then do a quick summary.

Lelith Hesperax
 
Lelith has even higher combat stats than normal Dark Eldar with 9 in both WS and Initiative. That’s insane! Unlike other Wyches she also always has a 4++ which improves to 3++ in combat but like most Dark Eldar she also suffers from low strength and toughness. Luckily she ignores armor and will generally have 7-10 attacks depending on what she’s facing. Due to her reliance on combating low WS models to generate more attacks and lacking a good strength or way to bypass high T models, Lelith excels at crushing pleb units (even Space Marines) but when higher WS characters show up she becomes less effective as her low strength isn’t being buoyed by sheer number of attacks. Keep in mind that even against stuff like Captains she’s still getting +3 attacks so isn't 'bad' but certainly less effective. If you get her a couple of pain tokens though, she can become very scary to anyone in combat as she wounds on 4s and has FNP. Lelith with two tokens is a monster. She will chop down just about anything she touches if she gets to that point.

Normal vulnerability like most Dark Eldar to S6+ weapons and like Drazhar she doesn’t add much to the army other than being generally down-right scary in combat. There’s nothing wrong with this but it’s not really an effective application of points in 5th edition 40k. Although a lot cheaper than Drazhar, you’re still more likely to get more mileage off having a cheaper Archon/Succubus and spending the extra points on the rest of your army. She actually has a bit more survivability than Drahz because WS9 means most models hit her on 5+ and a 3++ means it ends up being rather tough to bring her down. Of course, she can just poof when hit by a Fist still, but she’s more resilient to it than she appears at first glance- remember, the Shardnet also gives the enemy -1A, so a Fist Sarge gets a single swing at her, hitting on 5+, wounding on 2+, and then negated on a 3+; in other words, less than a 10% chance of actually doing anything. Basically if you want a really scary combat character, go Lelith. She's not as bad as many other combat characters in she does get a bunch of attacks but she is still quite one-dimensional.

Dark Eldar Codex Review: Part 3: Special Characters (Part 1)

We're doing special characters first before actual HQs. Unusual but hey, it floats our boat for the moment. Like most of the 5th edition armies, the Special Characters are the weakest section in terms of percentages of the Dark Eldar book. They have some pretty good ones, some okay ones and then some downright terrible ones. All things considered the special characters open up quite a few specific builds and compliment other builds rather well. The biggest downfall of many of the Dark Eldar HQs is their expense and whilst many of them are quite survivable with a 2++ (it is not the new black), it just takes a single one and a lot of points can be very easily removed. So let's take a look and see how they stack up.

Asdrubael Vect

This guy is very expensive considering he’s only T3 and can be insta-gibbed. With a 2++ shadowfield and WS/I8 this can be hard though and he has four wounds otherwise to soak up baby hits. Combine this with an impressive number of attacks (5), a scary orbs of death (BS8 means it doesn’t scatter much) and a power weapon which always wounds on 3’s? Wow, I don’t want to get into combat with him unless I’m Tyranids with Lash Whips and the Swarmlord and even then… Vect’s real problem is that he’s vulnerable to just being torrented down/ID’d by S6 hits. He’s pretty strong in a fight against other combat units, but hard hitters will bring him down eventually.

New Banner & Blog Design

There's this dude called amazingPhil. He's pretty amazing. He made the new banner that adornes the 3++ website. He's also offered to help update the 3++ look which I'm happy for him to do since the site looks a bit bland now compared to that awesome banner... What are people's thoughts on the layout currently? Okay? Too crowded? Anyway thoughts and comments here so we can make 3++ look better.

*drools over banner*

P.S. is the banner the correct length for people's browsers? There was an issue with this earlier with the old banner so just want to make sure it's okay currently.

Grrr! Kittens vs. Puppies, go!

So Fluger (of Blood of Kittens) and I are gonna be playing a Vassal game in about two hours here, for those interested in watching. Most of the communication will be via Skype for those who want to listen to us B.S., but the room always has a continuous commentary from the peanut gallery as well, so no one should be left out.

Come and join us and see a mediocre player (and Nathan) in action!

Herohammer: The Concept Explored In Brief

This is probably my shortest article to date, ever.

Herohammer in Ages Past:

Herohammer as a concept has been around for many years and as per kirby's article here we can see that in the traditional sense, Herohammer is non-existent in the Warhammer 40,000 of today because you simply can't pump enough points into single models with enough damage output to give them the title of Herohammer. In this way, Kirby smacks the nail on the head, but what isn't recognised is that as a whole, things have started to become much cheaper in recent codicies (ie everything from 3rd ed onwards, with 5th ed pushing the boundaries further again - especially as we've seen each marine codex slowly refine itself points wise) and one can fit far more into his or her army then previously.

This has the effect that characters are less domineering because there is more to consider in terms of threats within an army, but is this the case all the time? Many people believe so, but I disagree.
My Herohammer Interpretation:

My Space Wolf Herohammer army started as a concept whilst chatting on the 3++ Chat Bawks explaining how 5 years ago I ran a 91 model Space Marine army at 1500pts, and a discussion about horde marine lists and how they could and could not work with current codicies. That got me thinking about the opposite end of the spectrum: What if I intentionally set out to build an army with as few models as possible. It would have to be competitive to the point of walking into a tournament and being able to win at least one game in a 3 game event if played well with a bit of luck as well (much like my legion of the Damned Army - Chumbalaya, I need to play the SW Herohammer verse your Daemons, lets see if they can last longer then Sgt Chronos at Turn 6 solo verse 30 Bloodletters and nothing else around from my army!) but in general be a challenge to play and win with...if possible.

Email in: 'Ard Boyz Bloodhammer

"Hey Kirby/The 3++ Team! Thanks for the help on the space wolves it's Kyle again( aka Gorak) After some play testing I found the wolves we're A) good B) Hybrid. Now there lies the problem for me, I just can't do hybrids something deep down in the back of my brain screams at me you're letting all there stuff do things! So with that in mind and my general dislike of painting a shitload of tanks I've decide to try the bloodhammer out at ardboyz level and I need some advice. I have two varients of this list one with sanguinary guard and the other with Vanguard Veterans. I'd like to know which the 3++ minds like better and any advice on improving them. Ok enough ranting the lists!

2500 Pts - BloodHammer(Vanguard Veterans)

HQ
Librarian @ 125 pts
(Blood Lance;Shield of Sanguinius;Jump Pack)

Elite
3 Sanguinary Priest @ 180 pts
(Jump Packx2;Lightning Clawx2)

Eldar Aspect Warrior Review: Shadow Spectres

Puppy and GWvsJohn haven't gotten back to me on the next Dark Eldar instalment; how rude. You get this post instead. We all know Eldar are in a dire need of a codex update and that Games Workshop's whole "specialised" concept just doesn't work; it's too easy to pick apart. Eldar are currently clinging onto their slot as one of the capable armies out there but with an increase in ranged firepower and psychic defenses, they are very much a defense oriented army which looks to minimise damage through reserves/good defenses and then dominate the board through survivability and mobility. Then the Dark Eldar codex came out and there was hope for Eldar. Whilst they are at least a year if not more off (I imagine Necrons and Tau are before Eldar in the Xenos codex update), Dark Eldar are a little picture of what Eldar want to be. Although Dark Eldar aren't exactly specialists, they aren't generalists like Marines either and quite a bit of their duality is gained from the 1+1 concept of transports. However, it remains that Dark Eldar have quite a few units which are capable of being quite good at one role but not utter failures in the other. This is exactly what Eldar Aspect Warriors need to be upgraded to.

So a long time ago we looked at some basic changes and reviews of Eldar Aspect Warriors. I'm not going to go into more detail as that previous post covers them but if you would like me to something similar to the Tau Codex Review (I promise to finish that btw) just for Aspect Warriors or the Eldar codex in general, I can do. What this post is looking at is the new Aspect Warriors released by Forge World: Shadow Spectres. Besides having a cool name and some damn fine looking models are these guys a step in the right direction? Uh no.

New 40k Models: Furioso Dreadnought & Stormraven

I'm sure you've all heard by now, Games Workshop is releasing some new minis. The biggest of these are the Blood Angels second wave which includes the Stormraven and a new plastic Furioso Dreadnought kit. I must say, I like the Stormraven a lot better this time around where we can actually get to see some more angels. I still think it looks a bit bulky at the front but it doesn't look like ass. Also released in this wave are the classic models of Marneus Calagar and Njal Stormcaller as well as a Blood Angels battleforce (good to see these coming back), Bjorn the Fell-Hounded and Ultramarines Honor Guard. The Battleforce contents confuse me slightly in what it brings to the table (Tactical squad? for BA? and not a Razorback?) but if you can acquire/convert/make a Razorback turrent and some Jump Packs that gives you a very solid and varried core of 20 ASM/Jumpers and a Rhino/Razorback. Not bad.

The plastic Furioso also looks quite nice with multiple options and might be a good pick-up for normal Marine players just to get some different Dreadnought torsos (we all make our TLAC arms anyway, right?). I'm a bit disappointed with the Force Weapon for the Libby Dread and no awesome plastic wings! I was expecting this sick ass halbred twice as tall as marine, not some short of Dreadnought shiv lol. Anyway, I'm sure people will still be able to convert those and it's nice that GW actually gave the option.

The Stormraven supposedly comes with every option available to it and from the pictures I can indeed see MM, PC, AC, LC, hurrican bolters and bloodstrike missiles. Sign me up for a model with everything in the bloody rules. Will ASM now come with 2x meltaguns? Please!? Anyway here's hoping GW comes out with some new kits soon such as Tervigons, T-Fexes, Harpies, Thunderwolf Cavalry, etc. before the new DE stuff so we can have complete armies moving into 2011. Enjoy the pictures (from Games Workshop) and giggle at these army lists!

Fallacies: "I Use it and It Works for Me"

Every time one ends up talking about which units are good and which ones are bad, there is always a minority who feels they need to proclaim the virtues of units that others see as terrible. Once in a long while they are right, but most of the time it's that strange somebody who must defend the honor of Swooping Hawks or Pariahs or what-have-you; units that are absolutely wretched, but somehow they still stand firmly behind.

Usually, the argument follow in sequence something like this:
"You just don't understand how to use them; they're very good at ______."
(Someone points out that another unit does the same job cheaper or more effectively.)
"Well, that's just one thing- they're very flexible and can handle any target I need."
(Someone points out that they have major limitations on use and are too expensive/fragile/etc to be good toolbox units.)
"Well, it depends on your army. I use them and they work for me."

This last argument is sheer nonsense. It's true- different armies do want different units, but that doesn't magically turn the world upside down so that bad units are good again. Winning a game with a unit does not make that unit good- if I get lucky, I can win a game with anything, and there will be times when all the stars align just so and conditions are perfect such that an otherwise-bad unit has the exact combination of qualities needed to be the holy savior of my entire army. But this doesn't happen often- that's why these units are considered bad.

Back to Basics: Deployment in 5th (Part 1)

Deployment - a subject that could stretch on for forty thousand hours of chatbawks debate, and is different depending which army you play, what build you run, and which particular way you hold your mouth when you set your models up. This article is to explain the basics of army deployment, without specifics to a particular army. So before we go any further, lets look at the deployment phase. This is a key part of how you intend to use your army, and what you do in the deployment phase will dictate what you and your opponent attempt to do throughout the game. A midfield/assault army will deploy as closely as possible to you, and try to herd you into a corner. A mobile army (when played well) will see where you deploy, then move where you are not. There are several different basic methods of deploying, and not all of them are good.

Pitched Battle Line - The Newb Crusher

This is where we all start. You get a starter set, or your mates army, and you deploy parallel to your board edge. AWSUM! MY ARMY IS GO! You may give little or no thought to what actually goes where, but that's how they do it in the White Dwarf batreps right?

Deathwing: I'm Sorry, Your Viable Army is in Another Castle

The new FAQ was, for all competitive players, a big step in the right direction from GW. Finally they have admitted that not only do the internets exist, but they are universal enough that they are a viable form of distribution of official information- and only, what, a decade behind the times? But, as with Fantasy 8E, we are finally seeing some attempts to make a comprehensive update to the game in order to bring all the army books in line with the current rules set, even ones that are lagging significantly behind the times.

The internets have, as they always do, jumped on the new changes as the dawning of a golden era, with everyone posting their personal pet lists and declaring them the newest, greatest thing. Folks, I'm sorry but getting a 3++ save isn't enough to make Deathwing viable. There is a core of an army in there, but it is not thirty Terminators trying to score points.

Bad to Good 2: What's in a Stat?

Before you can play this game, you have to know what your units are capable of. After reading through this, you will hopefully be able to look at a statline and understand what it actually means. It's easy to look at a statline and not really understand what it means, and to just use a unit like its fluff description tells you too. Take a look at the stats, and say to yourself, “okay, that one's good, that one's average, this is good on the charge but bad otherwise...” etc. After a while, you won't even really have to think about it, you'll just recognize what a statline means at a glance.

Weapon Skill (WS):

To be honest, there are only three weapon skills that really matter. 3, 4, and 5+. The majority of enemies you will face are WS4, which is why a good way to evaluate your weapon skill is to contrast it against 4. 4 is the standard for all space marine armies (and their equivalents) and any melee unit in the game will be at least WS4. 3 is also very common, guardsman, guardians, gaunts, really any cheap light infantry comes with 3.

The interesting thing about weapon skill is that an increase doesn't necessarily translate to more offensive power. The weapon skill chart is actually very simple. If you have a higher weapons skill than your opponent, you hit on a 3+. If you are equal, or your opponent has more, you hit on 4+. If your opponent has double your weapon skill +1, than you hit them on 5+.

For this reason, going from weapon skill 3 to 4 is really a defensive upgrade. You won't be hitting anything that matters more easily, but most things will have a harder time hitting you.

Email in: 1750 Pure Jumper List

"Hey Kirby,

Been a long time fan of the blog and want you to keep up the great work on your tactica's, list reviews, bat reps etc.

Anyway,on to business. The list that I have here is one that I'm going to be bringing to the Irish Tournament Warpcon. This will be my first Tourney and I do hoe to do well. I have gotten help building this list off a friend of mine, Stormy. He has the Touched by Greatness Blog. But anyway here is the list i will be bringing and would like to know what you think of it:

Libby w/ Jump Pack, Lance + Shield
Libby w/ Jump Pack, Lance + Fear
Sanguinary Priests x 3 w/ Jump Packs, 3 Combi-Melta's
Assault Squad w/ Hammer, 2 Meltaguns
Assault Squad w/ Hammer, 2 Metaguns
Assault Squad w/ Hammer, 2 Meltaguns
Assault Squad w/ Fist, 2 Meltaguns
Vanguard w/ Jump Packs, Fist, 2 Claws, Melta Bomb, 4 x Storm Shields.

Email in: Help with a 1500 Vanilla Space Marine list

"Hi again Kirby (or whoever it may be). I’m a convert on the use of LasPlas Razorbacks but am torn on how many to squeeze into the list. I also would like your views on TLAC TLLC dreadnoughts verses 2 x TLAC. I know the Rifledread is superior at AV10, but it is only marginally better at AV11 (due to the cost difference) and behind at AV12/13/14. Do you think it is worth the points to add some higher strength shots? I also previously used Dakka Preds, but in my limited experience I never seem to get much use out of their Heavy Bolters and so am toyingwith the idea of just using plain Preds.


List #1 – 1495
My first list is trying to accommodate 4 LasPlas Razorbacks, giving me 4 mobile scoring units. In both lists the Librarian will travel with a squad in a razorback with a dozer blade.

HQ
Librarian, Null-Zone and Avenger – 100

Herohammer: Blood Angels - Thoughts and Approaches

BLOOD ANGELS HEROHAMMER: THOUGHTS AND APPROACHES
BY AURETIOUS TAAK.

This is a long article. If you want to cite tl;dr, don't bother reading or trolling us Taak. I write alot, this is well known A lot is two words for crying out loud!. If you don't want to read the article then don't waste peoples time. To everyone else, enjoy the tricks and hopefully you'll start to look at codicies and 40k as a game on a tactical and strategical level much more elaborately and unexpectedly .... Things to throw your opponents off balance with. There's plenty of that in the article below in any case. Finally, before we get to the meat of it all, to those who said SW's could ONLY do Herohammer because they get TWM's for their characters, I'm here to say otherwise, and indeed BA's could well do it far more efficiently then SW's, unfortunately with not quite as few models but still less then 20 and no armour in sight at 1,750 points. Enjoy the article. All 5000+ words!

But first, a Problem for you.

BA codex.

You have a 3 model unit.